Awesomely Off-Topic: Books, Brands, Business and Everything Else We’re Not Supposed to Say Out Loud

🎙️ Episode 28: Keeping Up With The Clauses

• Taz Thornton and Asha Clearwater • Season 1 • Episode 28

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0:00 | 39:03

Christmas feels ancient, cosy and untouchable.

It’s also been aggressively meddled with - mostly by the Victorians.

In this episode, we unpack how angels ended up policing the top of the tree, how Christmas pudding started out (you really would NOT have wanted custard with it!), why tinsel wasn't always tacky, and how class, comparison and respectability quietly rewired the season.

This is Christmas traditions through a brand lens - part folklore, part rebrand, part Victorian PR disaster. Also, I think we deserve points for not calling it 'Brand AId: Do They Know It's Christmas?'. Ahem... moving swiftly on...

This is festive, fascinating and just uncomfortable enough to make you look at your tree differently. Get it downloaded, you cheeky little Christmas elf, you! x

Something you’d love us to know? Send us a message - we’d love to hear from you.

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✨ Unfiltered. Unedited. Awesomely Off-Topic. New episodes every Tuesday.

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👋 @thetazthornton + @ashaclearwater

SPEAKER_00:

Welcome to Autumnly Off Topic, the podcast that refuses to stay in its lane. We're Asher and us, ex-journalists, now coaches, creators and chaos-embracing business owners. Each episode will dive into the world of books, branding, visibility, content, business, and wherever else our ADHD brains take us. This is unfiltered, unscripted, occasionally unhinged, and totally ups. Ho ho ho! Ho ho ho.

SPEAKER_01:

Merry Christmas.

SPEAKER_00:

What was that?

SPEAKER_01:

That was that was my Santa voice.

SPEAKER_00:

Did you not like it? It was alright.

SPEAKER_01:

Welcome to the closest to Christmas edition that we have of Autumn Lee Off Topic. Christmas is just too well, actually, December the 23rd.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's Christmas Eve. It is.

SPEAKER_01:

So exciting. Exciting. We're carrying on some of the discussions we started last time. We've had a few episodes talking about this, about the evolution of brands, just because it can make amazing content for you as well. But also, you might learn a thing or two. So, Ash, when we think about Christmas, what are some of the kind of symbols of Christmas, those things that are synonymous with Christmas for you? Well, there's so many.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, Father Christmas or Santa himself. Yeah. Um, elves. Yeah. Think of the elves in the little, you know, making all the toys and things. Yeah. Um, what else? What else? Oh, Christmas tree. Christmas tree, of course, and the decorations that go on it.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Um, Christmas crackers. Yeah. Um, um, reindeer, obviously, who we know are girls. Yes. Obviously, because they need to get things done. They've still got their antlers. Yeah, yeah. Um, lots of things. Holly, holly, I suppose, mistletoe, uh, linch pies, um, Christmas pudding. Um that was a kiss sound in case you missed them. Oh, sorry, did I miss that? Yours good. Oh. We have got some mistletoe, it's actually still up in the kitchen from last year. I know. She still doesn't take the head. Um, yeah, there's loads of things. That's the first things that come to mind. Christmas carols, I guess, you know, singing and what's so special about carols?

SPEAKER_01:

Why haven't we got like a Christmas Claire or a Christmas Kevin? Why carol? I don't know, I'm not sure. Okay, so So let so so where's the Christmas tree to coming from? Just to pick one of yours.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, the Christmas trees for me I immediately think of only because it was in the news just the last week. Um, is obviously London always gets a tree, I believe, from Norway, is it? It goes back as well. Is it Norway? I think it is. And it goes it goes to um She never laughs at my puns. Trafalgar Square. Yeah. Um and it was brought in only a couple of weeks ago, I think, a week or so back. What is it that you think of?

SPEAKER_01:

What where does where does the idea, the whole origin of a Christmas tree come from? What's it about?

SPEAKER_00:

Is it Victorian? Or is it beyond that? It's way back, isn't it? Victorians loved a good Christmas tree, didn't they?

SPEAKER_01:

So are you ready for this? Gone. So the Christmas tree is not originally Christian.

SPEAKER_00:

Ooh.

SPEAKER_01:

It's pagan. It goes way back. You should know this, you should be able to do it. You should. It goes back to early Germanic and Nordic cultures who bought evergreen branches indoors to symbolise life in the dead of winter. Yep. The first recorded modern Christmas tree is in 16th century Germany.

unknown:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

So how did it come over here? Well, Queen Victoria and Prince Albert. There you go, there's a Victorian. Okay. Popularised the tree in the UK after they posed with one in the Illustrated London News, which was proper kind of Victorian influencer stuff.

unknown:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

So that's where it came from. What about you with trees? Have you got a preference for trees? I love the idea of a fresh one, but with the smell beautiful. Yeah. With animals and fallen needles, lots of good. And also, I hate the idea of chopping them down.

SPEAKER_00:

I know, and then they just go on the yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Compost away.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, you can get those that you can actually plant. I like that. Yeah, I do like that. The smell though, nothing beats that beautiful smell. You know, when you come into a room and you just smell the pine needles.

SPEAKER_01:

But think about, let's go back to that origin again. The the idea that the world the world is bleak and cold, say the humans. Yeah. So I know. Let's drag a massive tree indoors and put candles on it. What could possibly go wrong? What could possibly go wrong? So I suppose in that in those ways you you could think the tree was perhaps the original sad lamp. Because they did use to put candles on the branches, so that was the original mood lighting.

SPEAKER_00:

And that would look very beautiful, and it does even with artificial lighting now. Actually, put your lights on and everybody goes, ooh, and it makes you feel like. Are you a multicoloured lights or a white light?

SPEAKER_01:

And if you have the white lights, are you a warm or a cold?

SPEAKER_00:

Thing is, you see, I quite like I always said to you a few years back, we decided that we had all the years ago when we first moved into the first home together and we had everything beautifully colour coordinated, and it was really sweet stuff. We really splashed out, didn't we? On quite everything. I think it was really natural looking. Yeah, all natural. And then about three or four years ago, I said to Taz, I don't want to do that anymore. I want sparkly unicorns on my tree. I want absolute naphness that it's like Graceland on a few. We can even have a stormtrooper pole dancing around a candy cane. But you know what I mean? Like kind of real gaudy and just get gaudy right. If you're gonna go tacky, just really go for it. So we've got like um stormtroopers, haven't we?

SPEAKER_01:

Stormtroopers pole dancing a candy cane, as I just said.

SPEAKER_00:

We've got dinosaurs with sand hats on, unicorns. So we've got all of this and loads of sparkle. I love it. So it's all of that for me. That's kind of part of part of the thrill of it. So a tree for me, we went for a black Christmas tree, didn't we, in the end? Yeah. And then we added all these lovely lights on, and so therefore, we're getting back to the lights. Um, in that case, then go for multicoloured. But I do like I prefer, I think, the warm lights as opposed to the the lights around the room, the warm lights, the softer on the eyes and yeah, I think the way when it fades in and out, that kind of thing, you know. I'm doing oh no, really good. So why are you talking about it?

SPEAKER_01:

What are we doing testing? I'm not quite sure. She's kind of pushing with her hands, she looks like she's doing agadoo.

unknown:

I'm not like, no.

SPEAKER_01:

What are you actually?

SPEAKER_00:

I'm just saying about them when they just fade in like.

SPEAKER_01:

She's doing a movement with her hands to symbolise the fading in and out of the lights. I am, yeah. Yeah. So what we're talking about, whether we will be forever fighting over whether the coloured lights are tasteful or tacky. Yeah. What else goes on a tree? The fairy or what goes around the tree? Or the angel? What's over the angel?

SPEAKER_00:

Angel.

SPEAKER_01:

What gets wrapped around the tree?

SPEAKER_00:

Tinsel. Tinsel. You've got to be really careful, listeners, with that. If you've got cats or pets, particularly cats, don't let them have the tinsel because um there are so many operations conducted on cats that end up with it down their gullet and they have to have surgery. So be careful with that. So be careful. Yes. Sorry, I'm just mentioning that.

SPEAKER_01:

We have the debates over whether tinsel is tacky or not as well, don't we? Is tinsel tacky or is it see?

SPEAKER_00:

I remember we used to, oh, we had some fat in the 80s. Anybody that's listening that remembers the eighties. Didn't we have some fantastic tacky Christmas tinsel? I just loved it, and I still do. I remember my dad getting all these different um uh what'd it you know, go around the room decorated with all different ones, all different colours, and he brought them back home and mum just went, Well, that's colourful.

SPEAKER_01:

There was no such thing as colour-coordinated at all. My nan went to town and bought loads of Chinese paper lanterns that she hauled over them all over the lobbying room.

SPEAKER_00:

We used to make our own, didn't we, at school?

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

We didn't used to make your own decorations at school.

SPEAKER_01:

No. We did. Anyway, she's got all these expensive claro Christmas paper lanterns sitting all over the hall, all over the the ceiling, and my granddad, I was would have only been about, I don't know, seven, eight. Yeah. Got me sitting on his lap up the corner, pulled out his trusty Webley Vulcan air rifle, loaded it with match sticks, and we sat and shot. Oh my name was paper lanterns.

SPEAKER_00:

I bet you she was really yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Anyway, she loved that. Oh, she went up the water. Merry Christmas. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, back to tinsel. Where does tinsel or uh originate? Where's that from? Got no idea. The original tinsel was invented in Nuremberg in the 1600s from real silver hammered into thin strips. No. Yeah. But the problem was the silver tarnished really, really quickly.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So it very quickly went from kind of luxurious shine to kind of drab tree spaghetti.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So uh it's business made. Yeah. Oh, because it was solid silver, it was proper high-class influencer stuff in the early days. You know, shiny to begin with and depressing after three days.

SPEAKER_00:

And yet we had like paper, you know, paper things.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So now, you know, when we're laughing and I don't know a tacky tinsel, uh originally it was proper tacky. It was proper social class signalling if you had tinsel. It was proper posh.

SPEAKER_00:

Anybody got tinsel like that at the moment? Do write in to us, dear listener. What else did you talk about? Um the Christmas wreath. Oh, you see now, I have to say I'm a bit of a convert with the wreath, because even the name wreath just makes me think of death, really. Yeah. Um and then when I when I met you. You immediately thought of death. Oh, thanks. No, but I'd never thought about having a wreath on the door before. But I mean we bought one only this week, didn't we? We've got one for our front door.

SPEAKER_01:

And that's where we do have a real one. Yeah, we do have a lot of things. So we haven't got to worry about the animals.

SPEAKER_00:

Because what we do is we save that at the end of the thing, and then we take the branches from that, we take it apart, don't we?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. We save it, we dry it, and when we do the big one and we do our fire weekend and fire ceremony, we use the branches as gifts to Grandfather Fire.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, offering for Grandfather Fire. So I wasn't a fan of wreaths, but I've kind of gone to got to like them. I actually once went to a wreath making workshop. Put it this way: if I had an audition for Blue Peter, even Val's knickers wouldn't have saved me. Or you've got plastic. Yeah, if anybody is old enough to remember. Stop it now. But I made this wreath, and honestly, I put all these bits on it, and at the end of the session, it was about a two-hour class or something. I picked mine up, put it in the curry, and the whole thing fell apart. It literally fell apart. It was just like twigs. So I'm not very crafty, as I said, but um so I'm I'm learning to love wreaths, but I'm not a huge fan.

SPEAKER_01:

As an aside for any younger listeners who didn't get the joke, oh yes, we'll know about that. I'd like to explain why we're talking about Val's old knickers and your donuts smelling like fannies.

SPEAKER_00:

We're talking you said that, I spent your donuts taste like fannies. Yes. Firstly, the Val the Val's Old Knickers thing is a reference to Valerie Singleton, who used to be a blue Peter presenter. Obviously, I'm not old enough to remember her, actually I am, because I think she that was right at the end of her career on Blue Peter. Um, and the other ones to do with a chef, TV chef cook called Fanny Craddock. Yes, really. Those of you laughing now, there was generally somebody called that.

SPEAKER_01:

And there was a very famous episode where somebody said, I may all your donuts taste like fannies. Exactly. There you go. Not smelling like fannies.

SPEAKER_00:

Um yeah, we got to go.

SPEAKER_01:

Back to the Christmas back to the Christmas wreath. So, what's the origin of the Christmas wreath? Where do they come from? Come on. What do you think? I I have a guess. Something to do with funerals. It's a pre it's pagan again. It's pagan again. It's a pre-Christian winter symbol of protection and continuity. Oh.

SPEAKER_00:

The round shape is all about the circle of life.

SPEAKER_01:

That's right. Yeah. Cycles of life, cycles of the year and eternal life. Yeah. And it was sometimes home to ward off evil to or to invite good fortune. Nice. So it's good to have one on your door. It was literally a door-mounted spiritual security system.

SPEAKER_00:

I like that.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh cool. We're keeping that on all year then, Taz. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes they're they were referred to as kind of winter mood rings as well for the house.

SPEAKER_00:

Winter mood rings.

SPEAKER_01:

Might have made that up.

SPEAKER_00:

Again, I think, yeah, I think so. That's a little bit too far now.

SPEAKER_01:

But again, you get the whole social comparison over making sure you have the right kind of wreath. Yep. Yeah. Can't be doing with it. Well, what get hung over the fireplace traditionally? And filled with gifts.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, so of Santa's oh stocking. Stockings. And at the end of your bed as well.

SPEAKER_01:

Now, where do they come from then? I don't know, your grandmother's drawers. If you put them in the grandmother's drawers, they'd fall out of their legged, surely. This is your stockings?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Stems from a legend of St. Nicholas. Okay. Tossing coins through a window that landed in drying stockings.

SPEAKER_00:

What? I've never heard. Are you sure? Where are you getting researching this? I'm researching a bit weird. This is very odd. It does? I thought you'd gone a bit strange today. I just think it's what you've been reading. I'm just telling you the history. So hang on a minute.

SPEAKER_01:

So they were tossed into a so Nicholas was was throwing coins through the windows because he used to deliver because that's one of the things that you've got to do. Okay, coins.

SPEAKER_00:

Ho ho ho.

SPEAKER_01:

And when he threw some of these coins through a window, they landed in stockings that were drying. That's where the Christmas stocking.

SPEAKER_00:

So did they fall out of the stocking? Because the stocking was too wet. Would it actually fall out or would it just would it be able to hold cushion it? It did hold it. They held the coins. That's a nice one, but it'd be quite cold when you put them on, wouldn't it? Ooh. Merry Christmas. Okay, this is very interesting.

SPEAKER_01:

Why do we pretend that adults don't fill their own stockings? Anyway. I'm sipping on Ginian again now. So Santa Claus, you mentioned, of course, we talked about Santa Claus a lot in the last episode. He was a mix of the Dutch syntaglass. Um there's actually a bit of the Norse god Odin included in Santa Claus. Oh I've heard this before. I think I've heard this before. Carry on. Plus a hefty dose of American marketing and then all of the stuff with Coca-Cola and the red suit. Yeah. So, yeah. How many mythologies can one man hold before he collapses? He's carrying an awful lot, isn't he?

SPEAKER_00:

He is, isn't he? That's a lot. That's what's in the big sack. So it's not gifts at all. It's just all these.

SPEAKER_01:

It's bound to be a big sack. He only comes once a year.

SPEAKER_00:

These are really adult versions of Christianity.

SPEAKER_01:

Anyway, what else did you talk about? Elves. I love a good elf. Go on, tell me about it. Especially a Will Ferrell. That's your favourite Christmas movie, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, I just think it's so amazing. Candy cane. Um, what about elves? Well, they're busy in the toy factory, aren't they? Making all the gifts for Santa. And we're in their really, really tight tights.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, they always think about everything you know of the Fay Folk. Oh, well it's Fay Folk. So they were woodland woodland creatures, woodland people. Elves were not originally cute. So if you go back to the older folklore, they were mischievous.

SPEAKER_00:

Is this like would this go touch into kind of things like Grimm? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, Grimm's Fairy Times. If you go back to the original folklore, elves were mischievous, powerful, and sometimes dangerous. They were only softened into the magical toy makers by the Victorians. Oh, it's the Victorian literature. Victorian literature is a cultural shift from potentially terrifying woodland spirits into these tiny underpaid seasonal staff.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I wonder what their hourly rate was. Not a lot.

SPEAKER_01:

It's pie and half of So think of it in that way with Elf on the Shelf. Elf on the Shelf is some some kind of sinister surveillance, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00:

I never got the Elf on the Shelf. I know there's loads of people with kids out there, and you probably do, but I noticed it also that it's so competitive, isn't it? Yeah. Coming up with new ideas for Elf on the Shelf. But yeah, that's a good idea. Some very funny versions of Elf on the Shelf out there if you searched so free.

SPEAKER_01:

What else did you mention? The fairy or the angel on the tree?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. Now this is the thing. Well, we always had on our tree, as I was growing up, we had an angel on the top of our tree, not a fairy. An angel! An angel! And she's taking a pee. I think we talked about it in an earlier episode. When I was a kid at primary school, I was asked to do some voiceovers for school plays and things. So I did that. But because of my estuary accent, I come from Kent. Um I got told off saying I was talking about the angels instead of the angels. I don't know if there's any difference, but um so Taz winds me up with that occasionally, so that's why we're talking about but angels were always on the top of our tree, and we had the same angel for years and years and years and years and years until it kind of was falling apart, but she was taped together again and off she went and sat on the top of the room.

SPEAKER_01:

I remember we had an angel on the tree for years when I was growing up.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And she was so 70s.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Maybe a bit sixties.

SPEAKER_00:

What made her so seventies?

SPEAKER_01:

She'd got well like she was in her seventies. Yeah. She'd got this kind of fuzzy, furry, weird hair that was pale blonde. Just the glittery outfit she'd got on.

SPEAKER_00:

Sounds like your mum. Sorry. And the blue and the blue eyeshadow.

SPEAKER_01:

She was a bit kind of Yeah. A bit kind of Abba meets Marmalade Atkins. Oh no, it's not your mum.

SPEAKER_00:

My mum's much more stylish than that.

SPEAKER_01:

She is.

SPEAKER_00:

Um what's I gonna say?

SPEAKER_01:

Someone once said she had hair like Marge Simpson that made me chuckle. Not blue though.

SPEAKER_00:

Anyway. So hang on, so so this okay, so the so it was an angel, not a fairy. Is that right? Is this where we're starting?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, sometimes it was, wasn't it? So angels were coming originally because of the Christmas story. But then again, our Victorian people popped in and fairies crept in through Victorian to storytelling and intro and uh illustrations. So that's why you can have a fairy or an angel on the tree, or you could also have the kind of that lopsided knitted knitted thing maybe our relative wouldn't talk about. You always get somebody who crochets or knits some kind of thing for the tree, don't you?

SPEAKER_00:

I didn't know you could get those crocheted and knitted for the tree. Yeah. Or a draft excluder. So so what else did you talk about? Oh, mistletoe, okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Tell me about mistletoe. Where does that tradition come from? Well it's got to be pagan again, I would imagine. Hasn't it? Mistletoe is a sacred plant in Celtic and Norse law. Okay. It's just it was a symbol of originally peace, yeah, fertility, yeah, and protection. Now we're not sure, but we think that kissing under the mistletoe may have derived from ancient ritual symbolising the end of conflict.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, that's nice, isn't it? I like that. Yeah. Okay, just as well we've got the mistletoe in our house in the kitchen for you know to keep it after these podcasts. Well, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01:

What do you mean? So was it used to say it used to symbolise peace long before it was an HR nightmare at Christmas batches. What else did you talk about? Crackers. Crackers? Christmas crackers. It's a cracker. Oh, that's a cracker. Where do they come from then? Christmas crackers. Stop cheating and look at my notes. Stop looking at my show notes. I don't know. I think they were invented in my show notes. You're such a cheat. I bet you did that at school, just leant over and so while people had to put their arms around the homework next to you.

SPEAKER_00:

No, because everybody wanted to look at my homework. Because it was so good. Are you fibbing? Yeah, no. Go on. So tell me more. Tell me more, Taz, about crackers. I used to have now hang on a minute, can I ask about crackers? Because I don't know about anybody else, but this is the thing, it's part of the you know you've got to colour code it so you've got your perfect dinner ensemble, haven't you, for Christmas Day, Boxing Day, Christmas Eve, whatever for your your lunch or your dinner. Right all sprats, isn't it? Yeah, but your crackers have to tie in with the decor, don't with everything else around. Yeah, they do ideally, but we've got a mix. I'm telling you now, because we've got some left from last year and the year before. We're having a mix this year. So I think we've got some red meddle and we've got silver ones, so we'll kind of mix them up. But red and silver goes quite well together. But crackers are the worst thing about crackers, I think, not the ones that you have cheese with. I've already bought those actually. We've got those as well. Um, is um when you go to do the pull them and then they don't go they don't go bang. Well, the original ones didn't have a bang.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, go on then, tell me more. So they were invented in London in the eighteen forties. I knew that as I just told you. Because you just looked to my show notes. But Of still a famous cracker brand, Tom Smith. Oh, okay. And he was inspired by French bonbons wrapped in paper. Bonbons. Bonbon. Le bonbon. Le bon bon.

SPEAKER_00:

Bom bon bum. Bum bum. G los G spots having an effect, something.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh my goodness. Anyway.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

So the bees drink it more often. The bang was added later and it was supposed to mimic the crackle of fire.

SPEAKER_00:

Bum bum boom boom boom bang.

SPEAKER_01:

There you go. There you go. That was me just giving you an example. We talk about the psychology of willingly wearing a flimsy paper crown. Whoa, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Do you know what? I love that though, but the trouble is as well. I have got an unfeasibly large head. But it is big. But so when everybody else has these huge paper crowns on that that go over the head and to the shoulders, mine's like a little pimple on the beam. I frequently split. They just spin round on mine. I split my crown. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Um yeah. So go on, tell me more about hats. That's kind of all we all we know, really, was just being silly about the psychology of willing and wearing paper hats. So so and the jokes being deliberately bad so everyone can unite in a groan. Oh so are you though?

SPEAKER_00:

Here's the thing now. Are you one of those people that you wear, you you pull your cracker at the dinner table, you put your hat on, you feel a bit of a plunker because maybe you've got your best outfit on for the day, and then you've got this silly thing on in your head. Are you one of those that whips that hat off as soon as you leave the dinner table or even before you even leave the dinner table? Or are you somebody like me that kind of leaves it on, forgets about it, has a little drinky, falls asleep, a little bit of draw, wakes up, and I've still got the hat on. Possibly with one of my dogs wearing a hat as well, if I've decided that they might want to wear it, and that's not I wouldn't recommend doing that actually, joking aside we shouldn't do that until it's fine.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm gonna leave it on until it falls off.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, but or it falls off. Yours I've just torn off in little strips. Mine comes off on January the 3rd. But do you do that? Are you one of those people that just like to wear it? And there's something strangely comforting about that crinkly noise, that noise when you go off to the loo and have a wee, and then as you stand up, you can hear your little crown crinkling.

SPEAKER_01:

Shall I just I'm just going to guide you gently away from crackers now.

unknown:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Now what do you enjoy what do you think? Yes. What do you enjoy eating at Christmas that's very sweet? Uh have I got to talk about mince pies or no. The thing that you actually like. Oh, what Christmas pudding? No, the other thing that you like even more. It's usually chocolate.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, chocolate, yeah, okay. Oh, a log! Oh yule log, we've got to get a vegan one, Taz. That's just reminding me, thank you, that's going on the list. And I said I believe white trays do a really good one. So, origin of the what's the origin of the Yule log? Cool. Guess. Um somebody made a cake one day and then covered it in chocolate.

SPEAKER_01:

You're not very imaginative today, are you? It comes. It's another pagan tradition, literally, where there would be a a a log that was left.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh yes, I've heard that before, and then you keep it in the house.

SPEAKER_01:

And from the pagan Yule celebrations, it was represented light, warmth, and again protection from spirits.

SPEAKER_00:

I like that.

SPEAKER_01:

Later became a dessert, as all good rituals should.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I see that's oh you can't be see. You know why? Because now I'm thinking about the Yule log that we've gonna have to buy for Christmas.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. Earlier humans, let's fight the darkness with a massive trape flaming tree stump. Later humans, let's eat the log.

SPEAKER_00:

Cake version, anyone? Yeah, I like the sound of that. Um, can we talk about Christmas puds as well? I don't know if you've got any facts about that, but let's talk about Christmas puddings. I don't know any facts about Christmas puddings. How many of you out there, listeners, actually make your own Christmas pudding? I know some people do, and it's a real tradition. And you put your your little um coin in, don't you, as well? Some people do that. It's a real part of the family tradition. Are you one of those people that will make your own Christmas puddings? Or are you like a lot of us, i.e., lazy people like us? Well, we just go and buy one. And if so, do you like it with brandy butter? Do you like it with cream?

SPEAKER_01:

I've found some Christmas pudding fats.

SPEAKER_00:

You haven't.

SPEAKER_01:

Come on then, tell me. Let's hear 'em. Christmas pudding began its life as a meat stew. Oh god, did it? Yep. In medieval England, the ancestor of Christmas pudding was Frimenti, a pottage of beef or mutton, boiled wheat, raisins, currants, spices, and wine. It was kind of a winter survival stew meats festive treat. Ooh, that doesn't sound quite the same. You couldn't really have that in custard. It later in the 1500s th it thickened up into plum porridge. Oh, plum porridge, yeah. Plum actually meant any dried fruit, it didn't have to be plums. Yeah, yeah. Uh then it started to become kind of recognisably sweet. Um dried fruit was the original festive bling, remember? So you always see all those lovely poper potpourries and it's got the dried fruit. That that would have been the original kind of Christmas decorations. Useful. Dried fruit.

SPEAKER_00:

Lovely. Yeah. That would get cover the smell, wouldn't it? But it wouldn't it? And the same way used to have the little things under the nose. So guess right, isn't it? What? You know, you'd put a what's it, a thing under the nose? Sixpence, yeah. No, no, the smelly thing, so you couldn't smell the smelliness of people.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, a pommander.

SPEAKER_00:

A pomander.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Very often a little lavender bunch.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Especially during the Black Death.

SPEAKER_00:

We're back to death again. Yeah. Merry Christmas, everybody.

SPEAKER_01:

So anyway, back to Christmas pudding. So not surprisingly, our pals, the Victorians, supercharged it with symbolism. Okay. The pudding we know today. Yes. The one my mum refuses to eat, but we won't go there. Um she loves it, but she won't eat it. The pudding we know today really took shape in the 18th and 19th centuries. Victorians, of course, adored ritual, so they turned pudding making into a family event.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, you've only got to see that because every year the royals do that, don't they? Dear Queenie Pooh's in one of the I remember watching a couple years back, just before she she passed away, but she was off to school somewhere, wasn't she?

SPEAKER_01:

And they were making um Christmas puddings and she was stirring the so when the Victorians took over it, they made sure there were thirteen ingredients, and that was thirteen, and that was for Jesus and the twelve apostles. Okay. Stirring was always done east to west to honour the journey of the magi. Okay. Everyone took a turn stirring to bring luck. And of course there were then coins or charms hidden inside for fortune or predictions. Or choking incidents like during the day. Health and safety warning, yeah. Okay. Christmas pudding was actually banned by the Puritans.

SPEAKER_00:

Why? What was wrong with it?

SPEAKER_01:

Oliver Cromwell and his Puritan government tried to outlaw it in the 1600s, calling it sinfully rich and a lewd custom. A lewd. What do you mean so grumpy you actually try to ban Christmas pudding?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I know. Well I could mm. I've be I've had my moments, I must have been. Well Christmas pudding is an act of rebellion. Do you know what? The thing is though, we always have Christmas pudding on Christmas Day, don't we? And I I quite like it. But I mean it's so rich, isn't it? Depending on what sort of pudding you go for. Um but I'm not the biggest fan, it's just a tradition. But I've got to be a few. That's why I'd rather I get more excited by the custard that goes on it. You're more of a a brandy butter or cream kind of person, aren't you? Whereas I like custard on it. Yeah. And that's really because I could eat. I could just eat a great big bowl of custard, really. Tubby tustard. So you know. What do you mean tubby tuffed? Is that you? Are you calling me that now? I know I've put on some weight. What's the fabulous?

SPEAKER_01:

What were they called? What? Winky Tinkin'. Uh-uh! Telly tubbies. Telly tubbies. A favourite food. See now tubby tusts.

SPEAKER_00:

Stop talking about now, Taz. Now I feel like a telly tubby. I'm just gonna get one of those hats with a little thing on the top.

SPEAKER_01:

It wasn't a hat, it was a symbol, so you need the one with a little triangle.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you. See, now you're definitely calling me a telly tubby, and that's before we've even got to Christmas Day. Rude. Just rude. Telly tubbies are cute. Anyway, okay. So what else do we do? So what what else do we do with Christmas puddings?

SPEAKER_01:

Uh do we always set them on fire? Oh yes. Brandy. The brandy flames. Setting it alight was not not originally part of the tradition. That became popular in Victorian times. Of course.

SPEAKER_00:

Of course.

SPEAKER_01:

As a dramatic festive flourish and a way to emphasise abundance. We're so rich we can chuck a load of brandy on a pudding and then burn it. So uh yeah, so again, this is delicious. Also, humans, shall we set it on fire?

unknown:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, we've done that a few times, don't we?

SPEAKER_01:

Nearly lost an eyebrow or three. And of course, a traditional pudding is made weeks or months ahead, sometimes a whole year. Yeah. The alcohol preserves it and deepens the flavour. Yeah. Christmas cake as well. What about Christmas cake?

SPEAKER_00:

It's like my Christmas pudding, the original festive slow colour. What's the one I love? What? Oh, it might do. I don't know. What's the one that I love with the oh it's got the really thick chocolate on it. It's a Madeira cake, thick chocolate, and it's got the little marzipan fruits on the top. The one I love that I used to have before I went vegan. Anyone know what it is, listeners? Do let me know. No, Stollin I love too. I used to love too. Stollen is gorgeous. No. Panaboo. No, no, no. It's a much it's a quite heavy cake, thick, beautiful layer of chocolate on the top, and then little marzipan fruits on the top, and it's called Anyway, anybody that's listening, do let me know, please, because I can't remember what it's called. No, that's Easter. Easter. Um anyway, go on, carry on. If it comes to me, I'll let us know. But do let me know, anybody, if you know what I'm talking about. It is gorgeous. You can't eat a lot of it because it's really rich, but it's beautiful. That's it, that's all the information I have on Christmas puddings for you. Okay, so anything else that we need to talk about with typical traditions around Christmas.

SPEAKER_01:

What about seasonal overwhelm? Is seasonal overwhelm actually a Christmas tradition?

SPEAKER_00:

What do you mean by seasonal overwhelm? Well we're a bit overwhelmed by your statement.

SPEAKER_01:

We eat too much, we drink too much, we get too peopled out.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh god, that's definitely I mean I I think we've completely reversed that over the years, haven't we?

SPEAKER_01:

I actually have, we look, we're just half us on the dogs.

SPEAKER_00:

No, we are literally we're batting down the hatches and we j and I love that. I love the fact that when I'm not all peopled out, with all due respect to all the lovely people listening and everybody around that that I know and love and care for and work with and all the rest of it. Sometimes just having your own space and your own quiet times with your family is wonderful. So um yeah, so for me, it's not really a thing, I don't think.

SPEAKER_01:

Because I I'm minim I'm minimalizing ADHD in in kind of traditional sense, some of that is going to be ADHD related, the overwhelm, isn't it? And actually, to go back to what we were saying in the previous podcast about gifts, that's probably why we've gone back to this full gift thing because ADHD impulsivity. Yeah, we get to that, what do you want? There's nothing you really want, because you know, if there's something we want, our ADHD impulsivity kicks in and we just buy it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and also, you know, we're trying to declutter our house, we live there for over 20 years. Last thing we want is just stuff, more stuff.

SPEAKER_01:

We've got too much stuff as well.

SPEAKER_00:

So yeah, so I think that's really important, isn't it? So so yeah, in terms of overwhelm, I don't know, I don't have that so much. Guess when the But when you were a kid though, didn't you have that?

SPEAKER_01:

Guess when the overwhelm elements of Christmas started to come in. Go on. Which which kind of age might that be? I don't know, eighties. I've got no idea. It wouldn't be the Victorians again then. Oh, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. The Victorians kind of industrialised the tradition of overwhelm. Um uh tradition, expectation, gifting, performance. Well that sounds about right. Yeah, then you add in all the modern Christmas layers, things like that. Marketing, obviously. Comparison culture, yeah. Neurodivergent overstimulation. Oh, I've got social obligation, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And what and how thick your wrapping paper is.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Oh, do you know this was a thing, this is really interesting. Now, until I met you, I'd never really thought about that. And then you said to me about different styles of wrapping paper. To me, wrapping paper is wrapping paper that's going to be on a gift once it's in front of the person for like, I don't know, 30 seconds and then it's gone. I'd never thought about that, but now it's like, no, you have to get certain types of wrapping paper.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, do you not remember when we were kids if we bought presents for somebody at s at school and we just got pocket money? Yeah. You go to the market and you got those rolls of Christmas wrapping paper that was almost like tissue paper, it was that thin. You could see straight through it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fairly well put it. Yeah. In which case you might as well have just popped into Wilcos and bought some that was a little bit thin Wilcos, Wilcos from cold quality into Wilcos. Yeah.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

It's where it used to be.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

But then you've got the other end of the spectrum. I remember we had some wrapping paper a few years ago that was so thick you couldn't stick it down properly because it was too strong. We just used to pop the pop the cellar tape on.

SPEAKER_00:

I like that's why I quite like bags now. Bags and boxes for wrapping, because I am the worst wrapper of Christmas gifts. Oh not as I'm saying the thing. I've seen some absolutely shocking things that have been done like at ten minutes to midnight on Christmas Eve, and it shows. But actually, even if I'm doing them three weeks before, which is very unlikely, but maybe a week before Christmas, it will still look like I've just wrapped it at ten minutes to midnight on Christmas Eve.

SPEAKER_01:

But the thought is that what's lovely is that you see. Yeah. And you were you we moved to Bags to be fair, because I developed that weird cellotype allergy. Oh yeah, that's true. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, Christmas, the the origins of well, the Olympics of masking for most families, I would think.

SPEAKER_00:

But we used to I remember when I was younger, we used to have a whole thing because it was quite a bigger family then. There were a few quite a few of us. And we'd have the girls versus boys.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, we were boycotted for being dirty leathers. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And we used to have tournaments, so it was the boys versus the girls. So we had all these like miniature, miniature snooker table and snooker balls and cues and stuff, and we'd play table tennis and we'd do quizzes and we'd do all this through the like whole thing of Christmas. So you're talking about four or five days of activities, and it was great fun and charades and you know, all of that stuff. And I used to love all that. That was cool. So there's an element of that, but now it's absolutely the thought of that just feels makes me feel knackered. It's starting getting older.

SPEAKER_01:

Again, masking Christmas is the Olympics of masking, yeah. But for most families, they're going to be sitting in rooms with people that they don't necessarily want to spend time with, but it's Christmas, so you all come together at Christmas. There's all that pressure, isn't there, to create all these magical memories where you're effectively running on courters, old sherry and mince pies?

SPEAKER_00:

Also, guys, how are how are you with opening gifts? Are you a tradition to traditionalist in the sense that you wake up on Christmas Day and open your presents? Or do you open one gift on Christmas Eve? Some of us do that. We do that very often, don't we? Um, minute past midnight. Um, or do you wait till later in the day after you've had lunch? Do you still watch the King's speech as it is now? Do you do all that? Are you very traditional with that, or do you just like you know, what are your kind of rituals over around Christmas?

SPEAKER_01:

Let us know. And are you part of the tradition where everybody has to cry at least once between December the 22nd and the 26th?

unknown:

What?

SPEAKER_01:

Everybody does. Do they? Whether they're watching a Christmas movie with one of those poignant endings.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it'll probably be more likely to be one of the kind of pet things that would make me cry more than actually the human stuff. That says a lot, doesn't it, really? Gift wrapping. When did gift wrapping become popularised then? I don't know, Taz. Do tell us.

SPEAKER_01:

Paper wrapping only became popular in the 19th century. Okay. And earlier, the the the original kind of festive yurtide gifts weren't wrapped at all, pr partly because they were there were they were often really practical items. I don't know, like a goat or something.

SPEAKER_00:

Try wrapping a goat. No, please don't try that at home, folks. This is not good. Yeah. Um okay. I've just got a strange visual of a a goat with a little dicky bow toy or something, or sparkly.

SPEAKER_01:

And you know, the the Boxing Day eating traditions.

SPEAKER_00:

For me, Boxing Day food is better than Christmas Day food, because it's all that well, it used to be before I was vegan, but all the cold meat and the pickles and the mashed potatoes. And the leftovers. And all the lovely bits, yes, all that.

SPEAKER_01:

You know where that started? Nope. That originally came from a tradition on Boxing Day of giving the leftovers to the poor or to the servants. Oh, okay. Oh, how very kind of us.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And we're like, oh, looking forward to Servants Day, pretty much.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. But I do I much prefer to you. You have you said that to me the other day, she said, Oh, I'm looking forward to the body.

SPEAKER_01:

Looking forward to mashed potato and pickles on Boxing Day. Yeah. Which says a lot about us, doesn't it? I know. So there you have it. So so again, there's we're hoping this was quite a fun episode, but there are some interesting messages in there about you know marketing and brand stories with where we assume something comes from, and then we go all the way back, and that's without thinking about you know the the origins of of Christmas itself and how it was then uh Christianised and all the things that we uh we assume come from that tradition, where in fact they're much earlier.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I love that. A lot of pagan um stuff in there, isn't it, that we've talked about today, which has been fascinating. Um so yeah, so whatever you're up to this Christmas, I hope you have a lovely Christmas, whether you celebrate it as a holiday, whether you're off to church, whatever you're up to do, whether you're visiting relatives, staying at home, let us know what you're up to. What's your Christmas looking like this year for you? Um, we're sending you lots and lots of love and good wishes for the festive season. Have a fabulous one. Um anything else you want to leave our listeners with tell us?

SPEAKER_01:

Just thank you. Thank you so much for listening to our rambles and for enjoying it as much as you seem to be. I know. Thank you for coming back. If there's stuff you want us to cover, I mean the ones over this Christmas period, we're deliberately making a bit more light-hearted because we all need a little bit of light-heartedness after masking so much at Christmas. Um, so just tell us what you want and we will do our best to deliver. And if you have any um little factoids around Christmas or New Year traditions that we might not have heard of, please do find us, ping us an email or a social media message, and we'd love to hear from you. So, whatever you're doing, have a beautiful time. Please, please, please take the time to actually stop and relax. Because how many people do we hear of who are already burned out, then burn themselves out even more trying to create the perfect faux Christmas for everyone. Think about what really matters. It's not where you got the turkey from or how big it was it is or how much your Christmas pudding weigh. It's it's how you love one another, how you care. That's the greatest gift. How you show up in the world.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

That's what matters. It sure does, but in the meantime, we will see you next Tuesday. You've been listening to Awesomely Off Topic with Taz Thornton and Ashley Clearwater. Follow or subscribe so you don't miss whatever wild tangent we wander down next. If you want to find us, you can. We're very Googlable. Catch you soon.

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Asha Clearwater

Host
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Taz Thornton

Host