🎙️ Episode 30: Beckhams, Brand and BS

While clearing out a cupboard, we stumbled across an old content plan from years ago. Some of it made us smile, some of it made us wince; what surprised us most was how much of it still holds up.

In this episode, we use that long-forgotten plan as a starting point to explore six themes that keep circling back – around brand, integrity, authenticity, commitment, permission and the stories we so often hold onto... whether they're serving us or not.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome to Awesomely Off Topic, the podcast that refuses to stay in its lane. We're Asher and Alex, ex-journalists, now coaches, creators, and chaos embracing business owners. Each episode we'll dive into the world of books, branding, visibility, content, business, and wherever else our ADHD brains take us. This is unfiltered, unscripted, occasionally unhinged, and totally ups.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

Welcome to the first awesomely off topic of 2026. A new year, new opportunities, exciting times, ATAS. Absolutely. New year, new year, and all of that bullshit. No, we're not doing that. Speaking of BS, we started doing something over our break that we never do. Well, once in a blue moon, we started actually doing some clearing out.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

Decluttering, we have got so much to declutter. I think we've talked about it in earlier podcasts. Twenty how many years? 20 plus, getting on for nearly 30 years in the same house, two women, lots of stuff, bouldering and hoarding. Um so we've been ADHD. Exactly, we've been doing lots of decluttering quite a bit over the holidays, uh, once we got over the flu, which is another story for another day. Yeah. But um we are feeling a lot better now, so we're starting to do lots of decluttering. And guess what happened then, Taz? What?

SPEAKER_00 1:18

Well, there's a story behind this. We'd got an old cubic um storage unit that we bought during lockdown when we turned our downstairs dining room into an office because the upstairs office was too hot in the summer. The upstairs office has now become just a junk ramer full of stuff, and we're still downstairs to decrease downstairs in the dining room. So we thought we'll get rid of that cubic unit because it got all cracked and broken, and we'll get a new one. And there's a story behind that, but before we go any further, let's just quickly tell you about another couple of things we've been up to during the break. Asher. Have we? We have.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

Well, what has what did we write, Asher, during the break?

SPEAKER_00 1:55

Oh, that thing. That thing. We wrote a book. What sort of book was it, Asher? It's all about podcasting today. It's all about podcasting. How's a podcast? Thank you for the reminder. Podcast on a shoestring. So I'm not sure it'll be live by the time this episode comes out, but watch this space. We've all looking at me. I'm I work fast, but I'm supposed to be off until the 15th. Remember, Asher runs an indie publishing company.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

So just be kind now. Come on.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

But watch this space. So anyone who's been listening and picking up tips about how to do this on no budget and with the kit that you've got, then it's going to be the book for you. Incidentally, talking about doing things on a shoestring and with the kit that you've got, we're sitting in the front room doing this. We are. Directly underneath the laptop is a cockapoo who may wriggle at any point. There's uh there's a labradoodle in here, a golden doodle in here, somewhere there's a cat. We've not even got the microphone plugged in. We haven't, so who knows what could happen. Who knows?

SPEAKER_01 2:46

It could be like a really bad episode of um blue pita, probably, without you know, sticky back plastic and all the rest and all the old jokes.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

You're just trying to bring the whole thing about make your donuts taste like fannies again, aren't you? I know, we've done that.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

I was going to talk about Val's old knickers. We've done that one. I know. But I'm older now, so keep forgetting. I'm sorry, what can I say?

SPEAKER_00 3:06

The other thing we've done is set up social media channels specifically for this podcast. Up to now we've not done much on them other than start to populate them with loads of clips from the episodes so far. So you can now find Awesomely Off Topic on Instagram and on Facebook fairly soon as well. Yay! We'll also be on TikTok. I might even set up a LinkedIn page, but I know. Please do look us up and go follow us there because we've figured up to now Ash and I are both trying to do clips and put them out on our own channels, and we figured it was time to have uh its own place. We also hit a bit of a milestone, didn't we? We did, we did. We hit we hit a thousand downloads over the over the break, didn't we?

SPEAKER_01 3:45

So that was good just before the Christmas break over, wasn't it? So that was really cool.

SPEAKER_00 3:48

Anyway, circle back to these back to these cupboards. Let's go. Let's go back into the closet, Asher. No, no, that one. No, I'm not doing that again. These cubic units that got battered and a bit cracked because of course we overstuffed them. And we bought some new ones. We bought a new storage unit from the wonders of the internet. Yeah. We put it all together, we cleared everything out of the old one, which took up most of the dining room. Yeah. And a bit of the kitchen. Yeah. We put the new one all together and then we realised that it was missing the lid. So our our storage unit is a bit like one of those tourist buses put without the people with cameras sitting on the top deck.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

I'm a bit worried. The first thing, what was the first thing I said about that?

SPEAKER_00 4:29

That you might get spiders in it.

SPEAKER_01 4:31

Yeah, because I was worried about, you know, not just about I was worried about their safety, really, and they might get squashed by the notebook.

SPEAKER_00 4:37

At the minute it's got a makeshift cardboard box lid. Yeah, anyway.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

I manif you know, I created that. You did, you did it was very beatery. Very beatery. There you go. Did you do it with with those old knickers? Or sticky back plastic? No. No. But I'd got that mentioned in again just to annoy you. You've got a cardboard box, but you did not use an old cornflakes packet. I didn't, I've eaten too many bowls of I've eaten two bowls of cornflakes today. The other thing is, starting from tomorrow, better diet. But anyway, let's not go there because we're going on topic again. Anyway.

SPEAKER_00 5:04

Right, so back to the point. While we were clearing it out. Is there a point? There was a point. While we were clearing out the cupboard, we found an old content planning list from about eight years ago. Yep. And we did the classic ADHD thing instead of you know just carrying on with the task at hand. We opened it up and had lots of oohs and ah's. Now you always accuse me of doing that with stuff.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

That's why you usually take control of sorting all the stuff out and pass it to me. But you actually did it so much. I did. I did. So there you go, see, it's reminiscing.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

I know, I know. But it was worth it though, right? It was worth it. So we found this content list from again about eight years ago, and we started to look at it and we realised number one, how many things we'd kind of grown out of.

SPEAKER_02 5:49

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 5:49

Number two my clothes open the latter stages of Christmas.

SPEAKER_01 5:53

I was doing so well when I wasn't well because I wasn't eating much. Now I've made up for it, but hey, there you go.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

Number two, how many of the topics seem to be cyclical and come back up again, particularly when it's due to do with the kind of human condition?

SPEAKER_02 6:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:06

And number three, how many points were still relevant? So we thought that what might be great today, just to start the new year off gently without throwing loads of stuff at you to do, we thought we'd we'd we'd share with you half a dozen or so of the topics that came up for us that were that were in our content planning list from eight years ago and see what they're 2018. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

Isn't that comes up? Yeah. I don't know, I don't really know.

SPEAKER_00 6:36

Right, okay. Just checking, it's alright. So yeah, we thought we'd go through some of these topics um and just see what they're brought up for you. Just sit with them, see what comes up. About right, Ash. Sounds about right. I'm gonna as usual, Taz, I'm gonna let you leave that and I shall interject occasionally. So we're gonna tell you what the topic is and then tell you what it looked like for us eight years ago, and then what's changed, and maybe you might get some content, some ideas, some personal business growth tips out of it as well. Yeah, and let us know how you get on. So the first one we're gonna pull out that was in this contact list from eight years ago. Don't build your brand on bullshit. So, of course, what bullshit looked like eight years ago, we have made notes on this, dear listeners, just so that we weren't floundering. Back then bullshit was often borrowed language, uh people didn't actually live by. So kind of behaving as they thought they should rather than they are.

SPEAKER_02 7:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:29

Inflated credentials with very little depth underneath, i.e. i.e. I've watched three episodes of Grey's Anatomy, so now I'm a brain surgeon. Or I've read a book on writing a book, so now I'm a publisher.

SPEAKER_03 7:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

Crazy, crazy shit. Yep. Um spiritual or personal development language used as decoration just to add the current buzzword to try and bring more money in. Do you know what? When I was writing this list, if we go back then, shamanism was a real buzzword for people in courses. Yeah. People were starting to recognise that people were interested in all things shamanic practice. Yeah. And all of a sudden, the word shamanic started to be to be tagged onto things. We had shamanic drumming. Yeah. We had oh the shamanic everything. Honestly, I Googled this thing. Shamanic knitting? I was just going to say there was even a shamanic knitting group that popped up. So just buzzwords tagged on to anything to do with spirituality or personal development, because oh, we can capitalise on that. Um we're going to touch on that a little bit with personal brand in a while. Okay. The same thing happened there. People started tagging personal brand onto everything because they thought that would bring the customers in, and there's no depth to it. Um the other thing we noticed eight years ago is confidence being confused with certainty. People selling certainty. You can't sell certainty, it doesn't exist. Um what else? Bullshit back then was perhaps subtler, less polished, more I've read the books, I know I teach the thing. Yeah. And it it I think it's important to say it wasn't always malicious. Very often it was people copying what they thought success looked like. Okay. Um, so how do we think that the polishers replace some of the substance in some of these spaces, Ashley? What do you think? Oh goodness me. I don't know where to start. Well, do you think the turd has been polished a little bit then?

SPEAKER_01 9:25

I think the bullshit is a bit shinier these days.

SPEAKER_00 9:29

And some of that has to do with the onset of AI and different apps to help people with things. So, for instance, what what do I always say I cannot abide and loads of people swear by it? So I know I'm the odd one out.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

Canva. Here we go. I think it's actually there's quite a few episodes where you've really dissed it. It's a great tool.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

Canva is a brilliant tool, but I just don't have to.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

It's because you're a it's because of the way you learnt design, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 9:54

Photoshop and a logo. So what does that have to do with anything? Well, now it's fairly easy to get really beautiful, shiny branding that just masks shallow thinking.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

Yeah, I agree. It's very easy to make it look absolutely perfect, isn't it? And really, really easy to give that kind of lots of really high production content, saying very little, actually, saying very with very little substance to it, but it looks really shiny and really sexy and it's really exciting. But actually, what's underneath it all, not a lot to be honest. It's pretty, as you said, pretty shallow, and that that's one of the things I've noticed certainly in the last few years, particularly. And again, it's since we've all we've got all this technology, which is amazing, isn't it? But then it makes it very easy to hide behind all that tech and put yourself forward as an as an expert. Well, actually, there's no expertise really, but it's minimal, it's just basic knowledge, but it's the technology allows you to make it look look, you make yourself look so much more sophisticated in your knowledge base.

SPEAKER_02 10:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:55

Um, so I I think that's one of the things that we've noticed, particularly, isn't it, since the and the advent, as you said, of AI.

SPEAKER_02 11:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:01

Um, recycled ideas presented as an original uh product or original insight, new idea.

SPEAKER_02 11:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

You get that particularly in the worlds of uh spirituality, healing, energy healing, mindset work, so many things, and people will will go on and on about this.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

This new modality, this new technique, and I sit there and think, yeah, that was originally taught to me way back in 1980 something as yeah, and also that you know that our ancestors for thousands and hundreds of thousands of years have been doing this stuff, and we just put a shiny new phrase around it, some marketing speak around it, and suddenly it's the best thing since life's bread in its own.

SPEAKER_00 11:42

Yeah. Ooh, mindfulness, yeah. Never thought about actually being in the moment before and focusing on the one thing at the time.

SPEAKER_02 11:50

Well, there's a thought.

SPEAKER_00 11:51

And again, mindfulness is brilliant, it's a set of tools we use a lot in our work, yeah, but it wasn't new. Um, something that I've heard referred to online, and this makes it sound very, very posh, as authority aesthetics, but without any lived experience. It's essentially what we've been doing is people trying to make it look like they are the expert in that field, that they have authority, but there's absolutely no lived experience. So they they they create the aesthetics by um by the branding, by the images, by the the the the the the shiny quotes they're putting out online but isn't by the book they get AI to write for them.

SPEAKER_01 12:31

Isn't that though how you see people that are basically you know talking about stuff and they've done all these different courses and workshops and things, but actually the lived experience, when you get the combination of both together is really powerful.

SPEAKER_00 12:44

But if you have one without the other I don't think it's necessarily people who've just done courses, it's people who've again just read a book or just seen, oh, that thing over there, that's getting lots of lots of interest. I I reckon I could do that. I'll pop onto Chat GPT and ask it what I need to know in order to teach that. So it's it's that kind of creating the look of credibility has become far far easier to manufacture than credibility itself.

SPEAKER_02 13:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

So there's a lot of people taking it a lot short short because I think that's one of the ways that bullshit has changed in business since then. Um also there's an awful lot of people who seem to be mistaking visibility for integrity. So what do you mean by that? I mean visibility is measurable, but integrity isn't. So if we think about the advent of social media, and of course we had social media eight years ago, but the the channels have changed and and some of the platforms have grown, arguably. Likes, the amount of traction you get on any post feel like proof. So if somebody has shed loads of followers and shed loads of engagement, it's very easy for people to assume that oh they must be really good, they must have loads of integrity, they must really be an expert. Whereas of course they could be playing paying click farms, they could just be being very, very canny about what they what they put out there, they could be buying the likes. There's it it's easy to do it. It feels like proof. The amount of followers feel like validation, yeah. Re reach feels like rightness to tell to try and come up with another bit of alliteration. So integrity, as I see it, real integrity is actually quieter than than that. It often integrity costs you something. And it and and true integrity actually sometimes reduces reach. Yeah, okay. So standing up for something that you believe in even though you know w know it will divide people. Yeah, so it's gonna you may potentially have the divide your audience. Yeah, and that that can make it harder to trust when the internet is literally training people to equate scene with solid.

SPEAKER_01 14:50

Right, okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

Makes sense? Yeah. Oh look, that person's got a blue tick, yeah, but they might have bought it.

SPEAKER_01 14:55

Right, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:57

That yes, and that's I felt a bit uncomfortable about that because yeah, I I had a blue tick on Facebook before you could buy blue ticks.

SPEAKER_02 15:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

Whereas now, I think oh people are going to think I just bought that. I put I paid for the Instagram one just because it was a tell asked to get through the system there. But I had a Facebook blue tick before you could pay for a blue tick when it was literally given out because of the quality of your content and the amount you showed up and that you were you were seen as having that kind of status.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

Just mixing it in a little bit, how does that sit alongside, for instance, paying to speak? Or is that another topic for another day?

SPEAKER_00 15:34

I think that might be might be another topic for another day, Ash.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

I think. Let's not get me started on that one.

SPEAKER_00 15:40

Because if we start talking about that now, this podcast is going to go on for about three hours. Awesomely off topic off topic. Paying to speak, or people feeling that the only way to get uh uh on the stage as a speaker and to make your mark is to pay absolutely boils my piss. I knew that. And the only people who will crow against that are the people who want to sell spots on their stage, or the people who want to get up on stage to sell to people rather than delivering good quality information that can change lives and give people actionable advice that they can take away with them without needing to spend a penny.

SPEAKER_01 16:17

Let's part that from the.

SPEAKER_00 16:21

No, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 16:23

Okay, so moving on.

SPEAKER_00 16:24

Sorry, though. The next point that was on our on our content. Sorry, does uh our content planning list was literally this segues beautifully, integrity. I've just smiled because I've just looked at our notes and thought, oh, that's quite interesting. Do you really know why you're doing it?

SPEAKER_01 16:39

Yeah. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean it's you it's part of you, isn't it? Shirley, for me, integrity is whatever you are talking about. You've got to feel into it because it means something to you. And when you're in integrity, when you'll be in that space of believing in what you offer, what you deliver on, why you're doing it, why you're doing it. That's the why again. What's at the heart of it? I always I'm punching my chest here, guys, as I say that as I say this. Like a gorilla. Thank you. Yes, I must have a shave.

SPEAKER_00 17:11

Um, but but you were brilliant in that film with Sagurney Weaver all those years ago. I nearly really swore then. Thank you very much, though.

SPEAKER_01 17:18

I know, but the ashtray hand. I know I never got over. Oh no, don't stop it, that makes me so sad. That's such a brilliant younger listeners.

SPEAKER_00 17:26

We apologise. You probably have screw all idea what we're talking about. Thrillers in the mist. Yes. If you understand weaver, men fossil.

SPEAKER_01 17:34

But it was that was the real life lady.

SPEAKER_00 17:38

If you actually remember that movie coming out and you know what we're talking about, drop us a line and just tell us we're not just talking to that one person.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

I know exactly, and we're not we're not the only older members of the public here.

SPEAKER_00 17:48

So you were you started talking about the why, didn't you? So we we we were talking before we went on on air about how our whys can sometimes that why in the kind of Simon Sinek context of find your why. Your purpose, um what the same thing I call my soul mission.

SPEAKER_02 18:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:05

How for so many that can get inherited, it can be outdated, or it can be unconscious. So most people, we were saying, don't choose their why, they absorb it. And they don't even realise they've done it. They might absorb it from mentors, from industries, from culture, from even from going through really intense survival phases that we all go through from time to time. Yeah. You know, and and it's checking in with it, isn't it? Because because a why that once made perfect sense to you might have expired. And if you're never checking in with yourself, you're not gonna notice that. Um but people keep kind of running the program because to stop s stop recognising that that's their why, to realise that their why they've outgrown their initial why. Yeah, I can feel quite I don't I don't know, destabilizing.

SPEAKER_01 18:55

I think I've we've both gone through that. We were talking about that, weren't we? Uh in our own careers and our own since we've gone self-employed as well, how we've developed our businesses. And without a doubt, the me that was running a business 15 years ago, my why has changed since then, without a doubt. I've gone back to what I love, which is around books and writing, and um in a b with the belief that in at the core of that is that everyone can has stories to tell and share that can not just benefit themselves but benefit others as well. Yeah. And it's so important for us to share those stories and providing a service to help people do that for me is absolutely core to my integrity, to what I love doing doing. That's my passion.

SPEAKER_00 19:35

But what was it that made you go off track and lose that why in the first place?

SPEAKER_01 19:41

I went down the route of being a journalist, which I still is all about helping to tell stories. Some might argue, you know, difficult times, difficult stories that I wrote and things that I did that maybe I look at now and go, ouch, I'm not sure how I did that. But then you went into PR. Then I went into PR and And I thought with all due respect to everybody that's in PR out there, I sold my soul.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

But why? What made you lose track of what it was you were and I did it too. I think most of us do it from time to time.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

It felt like I don't know, it just felt it felt like the right thing to do, but as soon as I went into it, really when we ran our own PR agency, it was different because I felt more able to focus on clients in a different way. But when I was working with other people in terms of PR, before I set up my own business, it was different.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

But even then, when we were running one together, it got to the point where we realised that this wasn't filling our soul with it.

SPEAKER_01 20:40

Yeah, it just didn't, it just felt like a you know, one you know, one um pitch after another and we actually stopped pitching it, which is maybe perhaps. And we had a really good high success.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

It's probably an another podcast for another guy once. Because too many people take the pitch.

SPEAKER_01 21:00

So so we're going off track slightly, but bring us back to the stuff.

SPEAKER_00 21:03

Bring us back to to when we why we need to keep re-checking in with our purpose and whether we're doing the the thing that that still lights our soul up. Very often the reminder, the the universe gives us a reminder that we need to check in, and it can be a w when we hit points like burnout, yeah. Maybe we start feeling resentful of what we're doing and we don't want to get up in the mornings. Um maybe you're the the success that you you feel that that you've you've craved starts to feel a little bit hollow now when you achieve it. And that was definitely for me and PR.

SPEAKER_01 21:34

Without a doubt, I had those feelings. I don't know about you, but I had those moments like that getting up in the morning thinking, you know, when we had two or three quite challenging clients in particular, and some of the stuff that came back and hit hit us in the face quite a bit unfairly, and I still believe that was very unfair. Um, and I thought, why are we doing this? Why am I doing this? Why am I putting myself through it? So I totally relate to that one.

SPEAKER_00 21:55

Yeah, and I think you do too, right? Totally. So again, it's it's recognising that the work you're doing no longer fits who you are, and it's it's really easy, isn't it, to get to that point and then feel like feel like you're failing. But really, what's needed in my experience is to take a step back and see them as a signal, see them as a little flag that you need to check in with yourself and and see what's what's needed. It's about getting your clarity back, isn't it? And clarity, here's a little buzz phrase that we wrote down earlier. Clarity is calmer than hype.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

I liked that one. Good one, I like that.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

So it's you know, when when you're going through the motions of saying that you're following your why outwardly, it can come across as real hype about it.

SPEAKER_03 22:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

Whereas when you have real clar clarity and you are following your true why, your soul mission, your purpose, whatever you call it, hype creates urgency and that that kind of clarity creates something more like steadiness.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

I think there's a peace, there's a calm around it. There's a certain there's a calm, there's certainty almost around it. There's a peace in there somewhere when it's just when you feel so focused and so in line with what you want to be doing, yeah, and you're doing it, and when you fit you can feel it, it's a real kind of peaceful feeling that comes over you, I think. I don't know if anybody else can relate to that, but that for me is how I haven't quite got the language with somebody that works with words, but do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 23:17

Well, we we were right trying to write a list earlier, weren't we? We were saying how do you know when your why is clear, when your purpose is clear, and what we noted down, but again, if you've got others to add, if you're listening, we'd we'd love to hear from you. We said when your why is clear, you say no more easily. Yeah. You don't need constant motivation, because if you're doing the thing that matters, then you're automatically motivated. And you stop chasing every opportunity. And I think actually that's how we sometimes move away from our purpose, where we get caught in the height of an opportunity of in the hype of an opportunity, or we might see the pound signs attached in. And yeah, it can also be it can be for a really good reason. So remember, you know, when when you're first building a business, for instance, and you just need to tick those boxes and get your numbers covered to be able to survive and grow. But then you have to get to that point where you you reach the tipping point and you can start letting go of some of the the work you've taken on that perhaps doesn't align. So it's it's I think we need to I think in business we need to get far more aligned with that feeling of calmness. I think it's I think that that calm feeling, that sense of peace, that sense of clarity is deeply, deeply underrated, especially in business.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

We don't we really you're right, because we don't really talk about that. No, do we at all? It's not about the excitement and the hustle and the grind and whenever I've been really on right on it, you know, in terms of where I am, what I want to be doing, how I'm doing that, you know, great client relationships, all of that stuff. It is it is a a place of peace.

SPEAKER_00 24:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

It's a real kind of there's a quiet comfort, it does fit. Fits, dovetails.

SPEAKER_00 24:55

There's a cockpoo sighing right beneath the laptop.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

It's like he's sighing.

SPEAKER_00 25:00

It's telling us to move on to the next to the next point on our on our content mapping that that we found. So the third one that we said we'd bring into this was personal brand isn't new, it's just the spin that is. So if we go way, way back again. Remember this was eight years ago. When what personal brand meant when it first emerged, early on it was essentially to do with reputation, trust, consistency, and how people experienced you. So do you remember what made it visible? It was the Beckham's, wasn't it, really, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_01 25:30

Because David Beckham was the big, you know, were the Beckham's as a couple, wasn't it? That partnership, but yeah, it made that it made it visible, didn't it? It made them really it was really visible, wasn't it? Well that's where the confusion settled. How can you have brand and it's a it's a person or even a person be a brand? I remember that us having that conversation about that and saying, Because we were using so we thought it was around a product, right?

SPEAKER_00 25:53

And it's because of the language, wasn't it? Because we were all hardwired to believe that brand meant a product, yeah. Well, exactly. Not a not a presence, yeah. So really it's yet again one of those things being invented, isn't it? Because personal brand really comes down to you being absolutely aligned with who you are and displaying that.

SPEAKER_02 26:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:12

So what hasn't changed at all since then is that people still buy from people they trust, yeah, from people they understand, from people who feel consistent, and actually that hasn't shifted in centuries, it just wasn't always called personal brand.

SPEAKER_01 26:28

Yeah, we just had a different language, didn't we, for a different wording for it, I guess. But that's really funny because we both had that thing around the whole thing of thinking about personal about brand was all about product. Yeah. And particularly for me, because I remember when obviously I I was working within the um office products industry and stationary industry for a while, and it was all about the product. So therefore, to think that somebody that could be around a personality or a couple in this case with the Beckham's personal brand, hey, who would have guessed it? But there you go, we live and learn, right?

SPEAKER_00 26:58

So eight years later. So essentially what happened is people started to overthink something that was always fundamentally human. Yeah. And then of course, as happens so often, it got all fucked up when monetisation entered the room, didn't it? Did it? What do you mean? Because when because when money gets attached to it like with the Beckhams, yeah, or anybody else that you think of as a as a brand in their own right now, before we even heard about influencers.

SPEAKER_01 27:22

Yeah. Oh well, then that was never we didn't know what that was then.

SPEAKER_00 27:25

The second money gets attached, people start to, I don't know, perform instead of express their true selves.

SPEAKER_01 27:31

Right, okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:32

They start to act in a way that they think they should act in order to get the wonga.

SPEAKER_01 27:37

Is it a bit like, you know, when you see a really bad speaker and they have this like you meet them off stage and they're a completely different person, and then they get onto a stage, but it's so kind of They step into the centre of the stage and they pause and they take a breath and they clasp their hands and they'll make eye contact across the room and they'll start to speak in this strange way that is the way that professional speakers tend to convey themselves in front of an audience like this brilliant. But it is a bit like that, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 28:08

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That people start to they optimise instead of relate. Okay. It's all about it's all about the sale, it's all about making sure that they're ticking the boxes for whoever is paying that money for them to show up as a brand, isn't it? It's chasing polish instead of truth. Ooh, icky. So again, personal brand, it's it's very, very core. It's do people know who you are and what you stand for. That's it.

SPEAKER_02 28:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:37

Which brings us smoothly on to the next. What was the next one we were going to talk about on our content planning?

SPEAKER_01 28:43

Isn't it about authenticity and why it gets a really bad rap? It gets a bad rap, doesn't it, really? Because it's like we it's become like a really bad word to use, hasn't it?

SPEAKER_00 28:51

Everybody's like, oh god, it's that was exactly the po point we'd written down, wasn't it? Why authenticity gets a bad rap? So let's look at it this the other way though, Ash. What were we talking about before we went on air? What does authenticity actually ask of someone? What does it ask for? It's about it's being honest about who you are, what you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 29:11

It's about you know what your products, your services are about, what you are what you're about, what it you, it's you at the centre.

SPEAKER_00 29:19

What's that to do with your products and services? It's about it's it's total self-awareness, it's it's congruence between your words and your actions. And it's also, and here's something people don't talk about a uh a lot, honest authenticity also asks you to be honest about your limits. And your limitations in terms of how much you can do, in terms of how much you know, in terms of where your expertise lies. Honesty.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

And again, it's that it's that truth, isn't it? I don't know if you'll pick that up on there, but that was uh So our heating system making strange noises. Strange gurgling noises, it wasn't that on his um Thank you, thank you. Um it's also about that truth, as you said, about being if you like being honest about things. If you're you if you're on a learning curve with something, for instance, within your business, talking about that, being honest around that, and being authentic in your learning processes. So if you don't know everything, having the you know, being authentic in the terms of saying, right, I don't actually know the answer to that, but I'll go away and I'll come back and I'll give you, I'll provide you.

SPEAKER_00 30:20

How does that sit alongside that age old quote? I think it was from Branson, say yes and learn how to do it later. Yeah, totally. Because there can be authenticity around that if the point is I'm not quite sure how I'm gonna do this right now, but I know I'll be able to. That's authentic, but saying yes, I already do that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:39

Yeah, I really I like that approach, I like the Branching approach.

SPEAKER_00 30:42

It's also one of the things we said when we were talking about this before we started the podcast was that authenticity also asks uh for us to have a willingness to be misunderstood. So it's not about self-expression at any cost and forcing your opinion out there. It's far more about self-alignment. And I think that makes a lot of people uncomfortable, doesn't it? Because it removes all the hiding places. Yeah, there's nowhere to hide there at all.

SPEAKER_01 31:12

You've got you're out there, aren't you? Warts and all.

SPEAKER_00 31:15

Yeah, you can't you can't blame the algorithms.

SPEAKER_01 31:18

It's not a third party blaming here going on. You can't. It's you've got to stand up and own it. And and also not, you know, if you're copying somebody else's voice, that's the other thing you were talking about this morning, I think, weren't you, Fernab?

SPEAKER_00 31:30

Or this one controversial point coming outsourcing your positioning. Okay, so can't outsource you. This is one of the things that oh this is one of the things I've always struggled with when I see so somebody who who is the only face of their business, a solo peneur, if you like, a sole trader who outsources their social media. Because it's so difficult to do that and to stay in alignment and authenticity. And I understand why product brands want to outsource some of their socials, it makes sense, they can't do everything. Yeah. But when it's a single person who literally is their brand, I do not believe they should be outsourcing their social media.

SPEAKER_01 32:12

Do you think though a lot of that is it's partly fear, isn't it? Worry that you're not gonna be able to deal do with everything. You've got lots of things you're trying to grunt get the hang of and get used to doing it as when you're a solo printer, there's nobody else to call on with that. So if somebody comes along saying, I can do that for you.

SPEAKER_00 32:29

And there are some very, very good people. We know one of our one of our listeners is um is is Flick the Social Dragonfly, which is brilliant.

SPEAKER_01 32:36

Yeah, hi Flick! And exactly we're not saying that though, are we? We're not saying that that isn't the right move for people.

SPEAKER_00 32:42

No, we're saying that a lot of people who I believe should be doing their own social media are seeing it as something separate, they're seeing it as marketing they have to do, rather than a platform for them to express themselves and to show up as themselves. Yeah, and that's the difficulty. Yes, there is marketing done on social media, but your personal social media, and it is your personal social media, if you are the only representative of your brand and you are your business. Yeah, I don't believe that particular type of social media should be outsourced. I think we need to get okay with it, we need to get to grips with what we're doing, we need to stop seeing it mark as marketing and start seeing that as just an extension of our voice. And in the same way that you can't really outsource your your your networking. If you are someone who likes to network a lot, you can't just send a cardboard cutout of yourself or a hologram of yourself into a business networking meeting with a box of business cards stuck on the front. And social media is a global networking room. So, yeah, so authenticity essentially asks you to stand that was that was the other thing we wrote down that was good, wasn't it? Authenticity asks you to stand in your choices rather than behind them.

SPEAKER_02 33:51

Yeah, I like that.

SPEAKER_00 33:52

What does that mean for you, Ash?

SPEAKER_01 33:55

Don't don't hide behind that, be at fr own it, own it. Own those choices, own that, own the good stuff, the not so good stuff, the challenging stuff, all of that. That's all part of your brand, that's all part of you, and being the authentic authentic you. Don't hide behind other people's stuff as well.

SPEAKER_00 34:14

That's the idea. And for goodness sake, you got stop seeing authenticity as a strategy. Yeah, that's why it's become such a such a maligned word. So many people saying I am authentic. It's not to quote Brad Burton saying, Don't don't tell me you're funny, make me laugh. It's the same thing, you know, strategy authenticity is a consequence, not a strategy. It's it's part and parcel of who you are. You don't do authenticity. Authenticity happens when your inner world matches your actions, when you stop overmanaging your perception. The perceptions of you, when you when you choose coherence over approval. You know? When it's when people start to try to use authenticity strategically, that's when it stops being authentic. And I think that is what's been a massive turn-off for people.

SPEAKER_01 35:10

I was gonna say, because it's very easy to spot that, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 35:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:13

And you can smell it from a from a long way away. The BS sometimes around that, and that can destroy your brand, then. Yeah. Potential has the potential to really, you know, do some serious damage.

SPEAKER_00 35:24

It's way too much bullshit, which brings us nicely on to one of the other points we said we'd share with people. You wanna give people the headline we wrote down, Ash? Are you committed to your bullshit or your growth? Absolutely. That was one of our other things on our content plan, because you cannot be committed to your bullshit and your growth at the same time. You know, it's about when you feel they need to defend your commitment to something. So, you know, watch people's rush to justify things if if they're challenged. Like, that's just how I am.

SPEAKER_01 35:55

I've said that a few times, I can remember saying that. I can't do any times because people like me don't do this.

SPEAKER_00 36:03

And defensiveness often marks the edge of growth, I reckon.

SPEAKER_01 36:06

Yeah, and that how many of us can really can't you you know recognise that in yourself from time to time? If I'm totally honest, that's I've done that a lot, and I know you've heard that 'cause we were joking about this this morning. We were talking through this episode, weren't we? And I was saying to you about it, I was saying, No, I don't I can't recall you doing that every other bloody week Honestly. So yeah, that's a really good that's a really good point. So anybody listening, has that been you from time to time? You know, be honest with yourself and and how can you learn from that? Because I think we've all been there at various times, right?

SPEAKER_00 36:37

That's just part of you know developing our own personal brand and our own business. Yeah. And your your growth is very rarely a comfort zone, isn't it? Um but very often, because we're so comfortable in that place of not growing because we're so committed, or sometimes unwittingly committed to our bullshit, i.e. the story we've been telling ourselves about why we can't do things or why we why we behave in a certain way or why this is just who we are.

SPEAKER_01 37:03

That's a really good way. That thing, the classic for me, and I said to you because I was going through, I've got a new, lovely, new journal for this year, um, and it's all looking at your you know your plans for 2026 and all the rest of it. But I was saying to you, one of the things that I've said is I want to really focus on um getting more written for me this year, because what happens is I always do my stuff at the end of the day, and by then I'm I'm on low energy. That's one of your stories, one of your bullshit you've held on to forever. This is what I'm saying. Yeah, so this year it's got to change, I want it to change because it's been going on for too long where I always put my stuff back and back, and by the time I get to it, I'm knackered.

SPEAKER_00 37:40

Which means when it comes to your personal brand and social media and and your MPR and all that stuff, and writing your own books, I haven't got the energy.

SPEAKER_01 37:47

You do prioritise, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:49

But what's the story? What was the bullshit story that you'd been you'd been sticking to for that? I haven't got time for that. Yeah, I've got time for my own stuff. Yeah, oh, there were loads of different ones that I came up with. I'm sure there were others, I'm sure you'll remind me to well we all do it because again, that's your comfort zone. Yeah. And and again, it's very easy for a comfort zone to start to masquerade as one of our principles, yeah, isn't it? So, you know, comfort dresses up dresses up as um values, yeah. We can say against our value sets, well, usually isn't. Uh we can talk about boundaries, yeah. We can talk about realism, we can talk about being sensible, or your favourite that we talked about and laughed about after having crosswords about many times. I'm just being practical. Yeah, you know, I'll be I'll be out there saying we could achieve this and this and this and let's do this and let's manifest and let's really go for our goals, and let's say we want to create this and this and this, and then Ash would come bring it all crashing down by saying, You can't do that because I'm being practical. I'm like, fuck off, you're not being practical, you're being defeatist, they're on the ends of your legsist. Yeah, sometimes those are genuine, though. We've got to say that sometimes they're genuine, sometimes our excuses are fear wearing a clever outfit. I like that, I like the way you phrase that. That's really true. Fear in disguise. Yeah. The difference is honesty with ourselves, and that's bloody hard.

SPEAKER_01 39:13

Oh god, yeah, definitely. Cracky. How many times, you know, half of the things when I was we'd always end it uh having a spat would be because I I wasn't being honest with myself at all, and would hide behind all these different reasons for why I couldn't do anything, I wasn't able to do anything, didn't have the time, didn't have the knowledge base, didn't have the you know, all this old rubbish that I was used to spout, and still can from time to time, was all about and then having a look at yourself and being honest. That's the scariest bit. But if you can actually do when you do do it, goodness me, the empowering thing to do. It's one of the most empowering things you can do for yourself.

SPEAKER_00 39:47

Sounding the same way that you tackled me on on boundaries and how much I'd allowed clients, family, friends, people to just gradually keep stepping further and further over my boundaries, which is how I'd end up so burned out. Yeah, and that was so. How uncomfortable. I really wanted to defend that and say, no, I'm just being a good coach. I'm being there for my friends. I'm being there for my family. And yeah, but what about being there for me?

SPEAKER_02 40:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:08

And for you and for our family.

SPEAKER_02 40:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:11

And yeah, she was right. I had gradually allowed my boundaries to be eroded. And you know, I think like most people, at some point when I'd been at a low ebb, that had made me feel good, because it was got good to feel needed. But then I'd allowed that to carry on to such a point to such an extent that, you know, I was working until stupid o'clock into the night. And no boundaries in terms of, you know, when I communicated with people and when I didn't. Yeah. So that was a really interesting one. You know, we had a we had um it was challenged this week, wasn't it? Because somebody needed some help and advice, and you were saying you checked in with your boundaries.

SPEAKER_03 40:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:49

And I went, it's not a client, it's not a working relationship, it's somebody who's been a close family friend for many, many years who needs help. So yeah, that feels okay.

SPEAKER_01 40:57

Yeah. But I did challenge you on it, not to not to be difficult, but just to check in to get you to check in with yourself about that. Yeah, it was a really valid point. You'll do the same for me, and I know you will, so that's important.

SPEAKER_00 41:07

So it's it's recognising that growth, growth is not always comfortable. In fact, a lot a lot of times it's really uncomfortable, sometimes even painful, growing pains and all that jazz. Um, but we can really easily stay in a comfort zone and and convince ourselves that we can't for very me very m for many many reasons. And it's about we need to recognise that although growth can be difficult, it's not growth isn't punishment, you know, it doesn't need if we start going into like shame spirals or harsh inner talk or self-betrayal. If you started beating yourself up, for instance, about not having done your own stuff, yeah, that's just taking you into another bullshit spiral.

SPEAKER_01 41:46

It's just a waste of energy as well. It's a really bad waste of your energy, isn't it? Yeah. And sucks you down into this vortex of really negative thinking and trying to get out of that will take even more energy. Yeah. So it is a waste of energy all around.

SPEAKER_00 41:59

So I reckon what growth really needs is um curiosity.

SPEAKER_01 42:03

Yeah, good old C-word.

SPEAKER_00 42:04

Yep. Not my favourite C-word, but one of 'em. Compassion. Yeah, another great C-word. And choice.

SPEAKER_02 42:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:11

Curiosity is a brilliant word. The only time I hate the word curiosity is when somebody sends me an email or an email on LinkedIn and it starts. I'm curious. No, you're not, you're trying to find a a gap to sell into. But genuine curiosity, like genuine authenticity, is bloody brilliant and we need more of it. So uh just just look at all that, and also I think it's really important to mention that you can acknowledge where you're stuck without calling yourself a failure or broken or any one of the other things because we all get stuck, but recognising the stuckness is part of enabling the growth.

SPEAKER_02 42:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:50

And again, that's a real power place to be, isn't it? When you sit in between those two things, when you recognise that, yeah, and you start when you start to recognise that and see the difference it makes to you day to day in really basic ways, but can have such a big a big change for you in terms of your business growth and your personal growth. So that's a really important point, I think, too.

SPEAKER_02 43:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:12

I think with all of this, it's recognising, isn't it? It's to give ourselves permission, it's to hold on to the the beauty of choice because we always have choice in any situation. Even if there are options we'd never take, there's still choices. Yeah. And it's noticing, it's noticing when those patterns come up, noticing when we're stuck, noticing when we're in flow, and you know permission seeking very often, I can say this from from my coaching as well, very often sounds really reasonable. So it can it can come up in things like um I'll do I'll do this one when I'm already.

SPEAKER_02 43:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:52

But what does that mean? Does that mean that you need another certificate? Does it mean you need to have visited that place first? Does it mean you need another 17 zeros on the what on the end of your bank account before after the after the point is up to you? It's it's another way of seeking permission or validation. It's like, oh, I just need one more clarification, I should wait until. And it's not that that's wrong, it's just that so often it's so unconscious, we don't actually recognise that we're seeking permission and validation, and that can stop us. Yeah. And until we can say, ah, until we can recognise, ah, I'm doing that because of this, what part of me is it that feels they're missing that? And then you can start filling the gaps yourself. It's about moving to that place where instead of making all these following all this unconscious bullshit that we all carry, it's about recognising that and starting to choose consciously instead of unconsciously. So it's not it's not like a massive shift, it's not like um I must change, it's more um I'm choosing this for now.

SPEAKER_02 45:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:02

In the same way that, you know, when I'm talking about money mindset, which is we're not going to cover today, but you know, people saying I can't afford that, rather than um I uh I will create the money for that and come back and buy it X in this time. Or how am I going to generate the income I want for that rather than just saying can't afford it? I can't afford it, it's a crippling mindset.

SPEAKER_01 45:26

There's a there's a bailing.

SPEAKER_00 45:27

Cockaboo is on the move. Cuckaboo on the move. Oh, he's gone. There you go. Thanks, Bob, for being part of a podcast. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, it's um I think that that one sentence can kind of return your your power to you, can r return agency, if you like. That whole point, that that just one sentence that rather than I must change, I'm choosing this for now. In this moment, it's a bit like I did a a a vo a a a video some point last year I say it that was you know instead of I feel really depressed, I feel really low, I feel really shit, in this moment, the second we add in this moment, it gives us our agency back because we recognise that it's not a permanent state, it's it's transitioning that. It's good. So yeah. Noticing is enough. Notice where you're hiding, notice where you're aligned. Notice where something might feel high or tight or heavy. Height or tevy. Height or tevy. Notice where something might feel height or tevy. Tight or heavy or just uncomfortable. I think I prefer high to heavy. Yeah. The action can come later. The first part of you know, ste go going into your growth instead of your bullshit is the awareness. The awareness is where it all starts. So, I think we're kind of almost there. That's all the six points we're going to bring through.

SPEAKER_01 46:49

It's amazing, isn't it? When you think about it, just from literally doing a bit of decluttering, and I think we touched on this before when we were doing some decluttering earlier in the year on one of their earlier podcasts. We talked about how it's amazing what you can find when you tidy out a cupboard or a series of cupboards. Um, but that's brilliant, and we've got so many more, that's just a few of the things that are on that list, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_00 47:08

And again, we're not here telling you this is how your year should look or this is how you need to prepare, or this is how you need to approach 2026. We're just offering you a few questions and a few statements that we've we've written down eight years ago that we reckon are worth us revisiting. There might be a few questions and points for that are worth you sitting with as well, and uh we we really hope they help in some way.

SPEAKER_01 47:29

Yeah, it's been good, hasn't it? It's not bad, is it? See, we have to do more of the decluttering task because then that will help us get some more ideas going to be.

SPEAKER_00 47:35

We just need to make sure that we actually get a lid on top of our storage units.

SPEAKER_01 47:38

No, it's kind of open air in that kind of alfresco kind of thing. Alfresco storage. Yeah, it is a bit, and I just hope all I'm worried about is the spiders.

SPEAKER_00 47:46

It's good, let the air circulate around up to the body.

SPEAKER_01 47:48

I suppose there weren't any there. I thought there'd be some behind the old one and there weren't. So no, I think the I think the little army bump spiders have eaten the big house spiders. Maybe that ones. They have. There you go. Something else for me to worry about, does.

SPEAKER_00 48:01

Oh, instead of being committed to your bullshit, actually, you could be committed to your growth. What could you do?

SPEAKER_01 48:06

There you go, there you go. I could celebrate spiders in all their forms and know that they'll all be perfectly well. And now there is a golden doodle looking at us. Look, she's giving us Gladys is looking at us and giving us a what are you doing, Mum? I think she's saying time up, mum. Yes, well, we've been on it for three course.

SPEAKER_00 48:21

You've gone way over the 30 minutes you said you were going to start capping these at mums. So on that note, perhaps we should say thank you so much for listening, and we will see you next Tuesday. You've been listening to Awesomely Off Topic with Taz Thornton and Nisha Clearwater. Follow or subscribe so you don't miss whatever one on tangent we want to them next. If you want to find us, you can. We're very Googlable. Catch you soon.