🎙️ Episode 32: The Burnout Chronicles

Burnout, Lanes & Capacity

Burnout is often brushed off with phrases like “you’re just tired” or “that’s just adult life”. In this episode, we talk about why that framing misses what’s really going on.

We look at burnout as long-term overload rather than short-term exhaustion, and how it affects energy, focus, emotional regulation and motivation. We explore how this shows up in everyday life and why it is frequently misunderstood, particularly for neurodivergent people.

We introduce a simple way of thinking about work and life through energy lanes rather than one long list of demands. Creative work, people-facing work, admin and recovery all draw on different reserves, and problems tend to build when too much time is spent in one lane without enough variation or recovery.

We also talk about capacity language and how checking in using clear, shared signals can make work and home life easier to navigate. It creates clarity, reduces tension and helps people say what they can manage without things reaching breaking point.

This conversation is about sustainability and self-awareness, not perfection or productivity. It’s for anyone who feels stretched, worn down, or aware that something needs adjusting before things tip too far.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:01

Welcome to Autumnly Off Topic, the podcast that refuses to stay in its lane. We're Asher and ex-journalists, now coaches, creators, and chaos-embracing business owners. Each episode will dive into the world of books, branding, visibility, content, business, and wherever else our ADHD brains take us. This is unfiltered, unscripted, occasionally unhinged, and totally ups.

SPEAKER_00: 0:29

Welcome to another episode of Awesomely Off Topic. We are working from home today. We're sitting on the sofa. There's a golden doodle under the laptop. There's a cockapoo next to me, and there's a 14-year-old, slightly bonkers labradoodle in the room next to us. You may hear her snoring. Also, next door has started drilling. So if there's any background noise, we apologize in advance. This is keeping it real.

SPEAKER_01: 0:54

Hello, everybody.

SPEAKER_00: 0:55

Yep, there's also a cat in the mix. We want to talk about a few different things uh with you today. We've been asking our regular viewers for some ideas of what they would viewers? Listeners. I always say viewers. I know. Listeners.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09

Strange.

SPEAKER_00: 1:09

I know I am strange. Listeners to what what they would like us to talk about next. We've got loads of ideas, but we thought it would be great to get some feedback from you. One of the topics that came up time and time again was burnout. So we thought we'd talk to you about that today. We've just come back this week, um, after almost a month off between Christmas and New Year. We recognise you're not going to be hearing this until later in January, but I promise it is only the 16th where we're recording this. Um one of the reasons we took such a long break over the the Christmas and New Year's time is that we realised we were both really chronically burned out. We've been working non-stop, all kinds of different reasons for it. We've taken on too much. We are making some changes to the way we both work this year. Um but let's just talk about what burnout is and what burnout isn't. Because another thing I've recognised, I don't know if you've heard the same, Ash, is that when people say they're burned out, there seems to be a bit of backlash. People saying to them things like, You don't understand what burnout means, burnout is really, really serious, you can end up in hospital with burnout, you're not really burned out, you're just tired. So we're in a bit of a funny phase because on the one hand, there's a lot of education out there trying to get people to recognise when they might be edging towards burnout and to make sure they don't go into burnout and stop using burnout like some kind of medal of honour. But on the flip side, we're now seeing people trying to regulate how much people are talking about a burnout and acting as the kind of burnout police, which can make people feel really uneasy and invalidate their belief that they might be in burnout.

SPEAKER_01: 2:57

There's also that there's almost I think the danger is there of kind of shaming people with it as well. It's almost like, you know, it doesn't mean you're lazy, you know, or you're it's a weakness. Yeah. You know, and I think we need to change the narrative around that too, and look at you know how many people are going through that and often will not speak up and not talk about it and share what's going on for them because they're worried about the the backlash. So I think it's time we change that, you know. And I it's obviously that's happening, but there are still those really negative comments that really get under people's skin. I know that I've that's happened to me a few times. You're just tired. Yeah. It was just part of adulting. Yeah. So I think we everyone feels like that. It's that kindness, isn't it? Just give you know, stop for a moment and think about how that might impact somebody you care about, or you know, somebody in your office, your business that's going through that and just carrying on trying to get on with life, but it finding it really hard at the moment. So, yeah, compassion all the way. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 3:51

I mean, is essentially burnout is is what happens when the the load you've been taking on, and that doesn't just have to be your workload, it can be your emotional workload, your mental your capacity, even your your emotional capacity, your mental capacity, your physical capacity, how much you're sleeping, all kinds of things can turn to burnout, but essentially it's when your load has been larger than your actual capacity for a really long time. So one of the things I've been talking to some of my coaching cre groups about and building a lot more awareness about is um nervous system sustainability, particularly if you're in a place of leadership. We need to start leading from the front and demonstrating, modelling what it is like to have a much greater awareness of how much capacity we actually have. So, how did we know we were there? Because burnout is it it it's it's not just a short term being tied, it's not like though you've been through one of those sprints. We'll have times where we know we're gonna have to do a sprint, yeah. Um, rather than a kind of longer term marathon.

SPEAKER_01: 5:00

Back to the gym.

SPEAKER_00: 5:01

I'm remembering about you you're breaking a two-steeds apartment from being on a treadmill, but that's maybe another topic for another day.

SPEAKER_01: 5:07

That's a story for another day.

SPEAKER_00: 5:08

But yeah, sorry, going back to the topic. So burnout, it it's it's chronic depletion. It doesn't mean I've had this project, I've had to work really hard for the past week. It's chronic, it's ongoing, it's it affects your physical energy, it affects your emotional emotional regulation, it affects your cognitive capacity, your focus, your memory, your decision making. And I know one of the things that had really started to worry you, Ash, is you were forgetting things short term.

SPEAKER_01: 5:33

Oh, yeah, a lot. Uh that was happening. I before Christmas, I was really, and guess what? You know, all these signs were there, I just wasn't paying attention to them. And it was only chatting to you um and other people around me that I realised that actually I've been in this space for quite a long time. Um so it can happen to all of us, it can creep up on us without awareness, and it certainly did with me until the point where I actually got got so bad with it that I guess what I got I got the horrible flu thing just before Christmas that wiped me out for about ten days, two weeks. Yeah. Because my body was saying, for goodness sake, just stop. We're giving you all this, you know, the body's giving you all these signs, signals, and you've not taken notice of them, and this is where we are. So I found out the hard way with it, and I think you've been there a lot, haven't you, with that in the past.

SPEAKER_00: 6:18

If we think about how many illnesses I've had for at least the past year, yeah. Uh problems with my back, the broken foot, problems with my well with my knees or with my joints, my asthma playing up, being just depleted all the time, the amount of flus and lurgies I've had, the bouts of uveitis that have flared up. I have been working at less than probably less than 50% in terms of my actual well being for at least a year.

SPEAKER_02: 6:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 6:50

And I'd taken on more and more and more and more. And remember that it's not just memory, is it? It's um and your physical energy, it's your motivation and joy starts to disappear. You're um it j I it's hard to list. I know that when people keep going in burnout, it can lead to some really, really serious health issues.

SPEAKER_01: 7:14

Yeah, exactly. And I think I think with me, with the the memories, you said it wasn't just that one out. That had been going on for a long time.

SPEAKER_00: 7:21

You were even thinking, oh my goodness, am I in the b beginnings of of early onset of dementia? Yeah, I was in a real state. Well no, so no, ash, it's uh ash. Thank you, that's very nice. Freudian slip. Oops. It's it's a combination of you're being burned out plus your ADHD, because of course there's also a difference with neurotypical and neurodivergent burnout, which is also perhaps worth addressing because when you're getting burned out as someone who is somewhere on that that neurodivergent spectrum, we often mask the fatigue, yeah, not just to everyone else, but to ourselves.

SPEAKER_01: 8:02

Exactly what I was doing.

SPEAKER_00: 8:03

It builds in things that might not happen to the same extent with a neurotypical burnout, things like um sensory overload. Emotional overwhelm can happen really, really quickly. Even before we've started a task, we can emotionally overwhelm ourselves just thinking about it. Um shutdowns or withdrawal. And of course, it can build much more I don't know, softly, quietly behind the scenes. Um I keep trying to avoid the word quietly because I've put a thing out on my socials today saying that's the current AI red flag. All these posts popping up with quieter, quietly in it. It's one of Chat GPT's current words.

SPEAKER_01: 8:40

Don't use that keyword.

SPEAKER_00: 8:42

Um so I was I was hesitating then trying to think of a different word to quietly. Yeah. Um it takes longer to recover from, or it can do statistically. Uh it ends up being misunderstood again by ourselves as much as the outside world. And we need to, I think we have a responsibility talking about the leadership element to really name this really, really clearly for people listening that we had both been in burnout for a long time, we are both neurodivergent, and we both ignored it for far, far, far too long.

SPEAKER_01: 9:16

Yeah, and it had to actually have a Lurgy to not be on my backside.

SPEAKER_00: 9:19

You've had more than one Lurgy, we've been knocked on our backside in many ways this year.

SPEAKER_01: 9:22

Yeah, but this was the culmination, I think, just before Christmas, and it was like, okay, this is this is recognising this. How am I going to work with things differently next year? And that's what we're in the process of doing at the moment, and already just a few days in feeling the benefits of that. So so important, isn't it? To not like that, but it's you can see how that happens, you know. Life gets in the way, doesn't it? Work gets in the way, you know, and we're we we can see the signs maybe we start to see them, but we dismiss them, or we don't really recognise the importance of actually working on something in the moment to address it. We just carry on, you know, keep calm and carry on, keep you know, keep going. It's that very British thing, isn't it, that we do and then we pay the penalty for that if we allow it to go on for time as we have done in the past.

SPEAKER_00: 10:07

And it can really, really creep up. So we did a lot of thinking and talking and journaling over the break we took, and just a key point here just taking a period of rest will not cure burnout, it will help you top up your energy a bit, but the real key to curing oblique avoiding burnout is is sustainability on an ongoing level going forward, so that's something we we need to talk about. But I was thinking for me, I I've essentially been unwittingly bringing this on since lockdown. So during lockdown, when lots of people were struggling financially, a lot of businesses were collapsing, I started doing as much as I could to help businesses who were struggling. I'd be saying things like, Yeah, I know, don't worry, catch up on payments when you can, or yeah, come in for a reduced fee, or yeah, of course I can just help you with that.

SPEAKER_02: 10:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 10:58

And short term, that felt like the responsible thing to do. But what I realised when I sat down and thought about this is actually I haven't put an end to that. I've actually still allowed people to keep saying, Oh, pay when I can, or yeah, come in on a reduced rate, or yeah, of course we can do that, because the important thing is helping you. And that is my my core value, is is helping people matters more than the money. But then because I hadn't addressed that, because I hadn't started to underline it more solidly since lockdown, and bear in mind, lockdown happened, lockdown ended in 2022. We're now in 2026, so for so for four years, yeah, I've been carrying on like this, and then of course, what I've done is thought, oh, I haven't got enough money coming in, I'd better take on some more work. And I've taken on more and more and more in order to fill the gap that I've created by being too lenient with people. And that's not to say that it's not genuine and they don't have cash flow issues, but where do we stop? At what point do we stop allowing other people's cash flow issues to impact our own cash flow issue? And I realised that in getting busier, I'd focused so much on my one-to-one clients that I'd stopped putting in the effort that was needed on a regular basis to keep promoting my group programmes, which meant the balance had tipped. I'd taken on way too many one-to-one clients, not focused on building my group programmes enough, which meant I was actually working way over capacity. To the point where if somebody needed to move their appointment, I had nowhere to move them to. And ended up moving more and more people into evenings or into the time off that I'd I'd scheduled for downtime, or even my own time for promotion.

SPEAKER_02: 12:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 12:46

So yeah, toward the end of last year I I kindly let a couple of people go. And although this was a wrench for me, because it's so in my nature and habit to immediately fill the gaps, not fill the gaps. Not fill the gaps. So for instance, next month, and when we get into February, I've got the new new term of the soul full success academy starting, low cost, 88 quid plus that a month. Blending business and spirituality, and I'd be really focusing on bringing more people into that. I need to focus on bringing more people into the group programmes and not keep focusing on one-to-one. That all contributed to burnout. I'm I'm telling you this because that happened 2022 through to 2026. And I hadn't noticed the pattern. I also, because I was so busy in the work instead of on the work, hadn't noticed how many weren't paying or were perpetually paying late. So instead of addressing that, I just went, Oh, need more money, take on my work.

SPEAKER_01: 13:44

So the knock-on impact effect is massive, isn't it? It can be over that period of time and not recognising that, just carrying on, trying to get things, you know, coming in, keeping you know, keeping the business going, keeping you know, keeping the money coming in to pay the bills, etc. But not, you know, at the cost of your own personal health, mental health and physical health. And relationship issues, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 14:07

We're we're pretty solid. But we'd neglected our own time because so much of our downtime was being eaten up by work.

SPEAKER_02: 14:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 14:14

And again, it comes back to those boundaries again, doesn't it? Yeah. Those boundaries were all blurring and merging in from one into the other, and there was no kind of 9 pm.

SPEAKER_00: 14:22

There's a WhatsApp from a client. Do I actually need to go and look an answer that now?

SPEAKER_01: 14:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 14:26

No.

SPEAKER_01: 14:27

So it has such a knock-on effect, isn't it? All of this. So it's been a real, hasn't it? The last month has been a real opportunity for us to address this and really look at it honestly and openly.

SPEAKER_00: 14:37

And of course, the knock-on effect for you was you saw me struggling, so you then started taking on more work to try and uh let me rest more.

SPEAKER_01: 14:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 14:44

Which meant we're both ended up overwhelmed.

SPEAKER_01: 14:47

And they're both early. So classic live and learn.

SPEAKER_00: 14:50

It's classic neurodivergent burnout. So please, please, please, you know, we are both I would say this, I suppose, but we're both bloody awesome coaches. If we heard one of our clients talking about doing this, either one of us would be having a stern word with them. Yeah. And yet when we're doing it to ourselves, we don't notice. Well, my dad's favourite phrase, do as I do, not as do as no, do as I say, not as I do. Yeah, exactly. That classic.

SPEAKER_01: 15:17

And you know, if you're listening to this and you're neurodivergent, and you're going through this at the moment, you think you might be on the edge of burnout, or you're still in burnout, or you're recovering from that, and you're coming through, you know, just spare the time to really give yourself some self-c good self-care. Yeah. Look after yourself because you know, there's only one version of you. Um, and I did get to the point last year where I thought, well, there's only one version of me, and how long am I going to be here for? That's that's sounding terribly dramatic, but I was really quite poorly and and not feeling fantastic, and thinking, this is ridiculous, you know, to get myself into this space and not recognise that this has been going on for some time. So, thanks to the lovely people around me who kind of um pulled me up on it a bit and tough love to get me through it. Thank you. But not everybody has that. So, if that's you listening and you're in that space, find somebody you can share things with that you can talk to about things. Find somebody, there's so many fantastic um people out there that specialise in neurodivergence, ADHD, autism, etc. etc. Um, speak to somebody, have that conversation. Um, I'm finding that to help you through. Also, friends, family, colleagues who you can trust that you can share with a bit as well. So important, isn't it? To talk about it, because we've talked about it so much the last couple of weeks, particularly, and it's been so revelatory for us, I think, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00: 16:39

Yeah, and in in this podcast, a little bit later, we are going to be sharing with you some ideas, some tips on everything from workflow to communicating to your family, your partner, uh, your your energy and emotional levels, so that hopefully you can build a far more sustainable working life and home life moving forward. But one more thing to add, if you're listening to this and thinking, well, I that I'm not burned out then because I'm not I'm not having any physical illnesses, it can also lead to anxiety, depression, shutdown, loss of confidence, loss of identity, resentment towards your work, people, even things you love, and I know that's one of my early signs. If I wake up in the morning and think, oh god, it's another work day, rather than awesome, who's my first client today? Yeah, that's usually a really early sign for me. Because I love my work and I love the people I work with, you know. I'm at that point in my coaching practice where I can choose to just work with people I love working with. So if that starts to edge towards don't want to get out of bed or want to put the duvet back over my head, that's a really early, early red flag. Um what else though? Loss of confidence and identity. We said that. Um it it it matters to notice early, so be aware of all those little signs and be willing to ask yourself the questions, you know, notice patterns like feeling wired but tired.

SPEAKER_01: 18:04

Yeah, that's a good way of saying it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because you've got we've a number of times when I was working late into the night on things, and I you know, my logical brain's going, You've got to stop now because you've been working since I don't know, eight o'clock or whatever, half eight, and you're still working at half past nine, ten o'clock, and yet I'm trying to slow down, but my brain is going, No, no, there's still too much to do, and I've got so much going on. Or who's had that moment when you go to bed and you're lying in bed and it's still whizzing around in your head? You know, that's when I love to for me, it's word searches. I'd use my word search to kind of help me calm down a little bit and take me out, still using my brain a bit, but not too much, and then or read a chapter in my book, and that gets me out of that into a zone where I'm ready to sleep. But yeah, how many of us have been in that space where you get that and you just you know that you what you need to do, what you want to do is to cool it down and start to chill out, but the other part of it, your brain's going, no, no, I've got all these things.

SPEAKER_00: 18:58

The business equivalent of just one more episode, yes, or just one more chapter, yeah, and actually that's another danger zone, and we went into this one as well because you're so wired. Oh, I'll just flick I'll I'll switch Netflix on for a bit. Oh Lisa, no, don't do it. And then you start to hyperfocus and binge watch an entire series and not go to bed until the small hours. Oh god, we did too much of that, didn't we? We have done too much of that in the past. And that alongside a dog that's keeping us awake a lot was not exactly not a good combination. So yeah, wide but tired, what else? Um increased ill irritability, tearfulness. Yeah, definitely me.

SPEAKER_01: 19:30

I mean, I remember there was at one point um when I broke a bit earlier for Christmas than I'd planned because I was so poorly, I can remember just sitting in bed upstairs and Taz had come in to check on me. Like, you're right, yeah, fine. Just just crying my eyes out. Yeah. Just because it I needed a release of some sort, because I felt I could let everybody down and I was, yeah, you know, and I'd been irritable in the way to the point of crashing and all of that stuff. I had well, yeah, no, I had because then we were getting irritable within. Each other, which was not good at all. It's not good for us. It's not good in our home for our pets, our family.

SPEAKER_00: 20:06

When you need to stop and remind yourselves, hold on, we love each other. What the fuck?

SPEAKER_01: 20:09

Yeah, no. And but when you're in it, you know.

SPEAKER_00: 20:12

Not only love each other, but we actually like each other, and I know that's rare, but still.

SPEAKER_01: 20:15

Really?

SPEAKER_00: 20:16

Oh yeah, we do. Rude. What else? Brain fog we talked about. Brain fog indecision. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 20:22

Well, yes, I struggle with that quite a bit.

SPEAKER_00: 20:25

I don't know if I want a tear or coffee, just give me a hot drink. I don't care. Don't ask me to choose.

SPEAKER_01: 20:32

I can remember us when we were both poorly at Christmas. We didn't have Christmas Day meal, did we? Do you remember? Yeah. Because we weren't well enough. We felt too poorly. So I think for Christmas Day meal, I think we ended up with something I can't even remember what it was. It was something bland like soup or something, wasn't it? But um I can remember us, yeah, and again that irritability and that brain fork was like, no, I don't want to, because there's part of me going, but it's Christmas Day, I need to have a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00: 20:56

We didn't even properly put Christmas decorations up, did we? We've we left our little man mini fairy lights up that's that are around round all year anyway.

SPEAKER_01: 21:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 21:03

We've got a little tree that we got from bought a little tiny, about a foot high tree from Sainsbury's. Yeah. That's still lighter.

SPEAKER_01: 21:12

It's bigger, it's bigger than that.

SPEAKER_00: 21:13

No, if you don't count the pot, it's only about a foot. Oh, is it? Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 21:17

Anyway, I must remember to water it actually.

SPEAKER_00: 21:19

Tiny little tree with battery lights on. That's a real tree, because sustainability and all that jazz. Yeah. But that was it. We literally plonked a tree on top of our bookcase. By the way, I have watered it since we got it, just so you know, but I'm just saying I need to water it again because it's Oh and we put a wreath on the front door.

SPEAKER_01: 21:34

Oh yeah, we did.

SPEAKER_00: 21:35

My ADHD uh idea of taking it down is that it's now hanging on the inside of the front of the inside the house of the back front door.

SPEAKER_01: 21:44

Yeah, when I was in my dramatic phase, I was thinking, oh go on to my coffin because I'm so ill. That's when I knew actually, incidentally, I knew when I was recovering because then I get a little bit Oh yeah. Oh no, that's part of the stages. But yeah, so we go back.

SPEAKER_00: 21:57

Avoidance of things that normally feel easy.

SPEAKER_01: 21:59

Oh, goodness me. Yeah, I know. Like, I'm just trying to think of something. Oh, I don't know, putting some washing in. Putting washing in the washing reminder then.

SPEAKER_00: 22:08

That that those duvets have now been in the washing machine for about five days and haven't taken them out. Whoops. Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 22:14

Because I'm always gonna put some other stuff in there. Right, okay. Okay, that's good then. Note to sell, do something else later. Yeah, that yeah. It's simple things that become a few.

SPEAKER_00: 22:26

It starts to feel like everything starts to feel too much and you don't quite know why everything feels too much, which can make it worse because I can't find a reason for this.

SPEAKER_02: 22:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 22:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 22:36

So And then that can go, if you take that a step further, for me anyway, that can go into shame, self-loathing, because I'm not, you know, I can't even do the basic things and get those right.

SPEAKER_00: 22:45

Yeah, I can't even.

SPEAKER_01: 22:46

All of that stuff, I can't even three bloody excuse my French, three bloody words that need to be removed.

SPEAKER_00: 22:52

I don't think you need to apologise for bloody airdrops on F-bomb a few seconds ago.

SPEAKER_01: 22:56

Okay, I didn't even notice. I'm so used to it, listeners, that you know, anything she says really of F-bombs. I know, I had to think about it, but I'm quite proud of the fact that I didn't. Okay, thank you.

SPEAKER_00: 23:06

Anyway, go on. So, what else have we got to say about this? Well, maybe now we've waffled on for possibly way too long about the.

SPEAKER_01: 23:12

Well, no, I did because I didn't put a timer on top.

SPEAKER_00: 23:14

This has been helpful for we've been going for about 20 minutes. Okay. Um I hope this has been helpful for you so far. Do you want to talk about your lane system that that you came up with? And I know you worked with AI to create this for yourself, didn't you?

SPEAKER_01: 23:27

I got to the stage where um I was thinking, right, I've got to do something. So I thought my good old dump Sky is the name of my my wonderful AI. Um, so I put into there what I can't go on working like this because it isn't working for me, it's not working um for us as a couple, it's you know unsustainable. I've got to do some make some changes. So over the Christmas holidays, once I started to feel a bit better, I put in various things into AI. Um, and I love this. We came up with kind of together, we came up with this lane system. So um this might help you. And I've spoken to Taz about it, and you've tried it, haven't you, with your work as well. Well, I will be doing, I've started to think about how it could work, yeah. But the thing is, think of your week, your working week, as different lanes. So you haven't got a one long, great big, long to-do list, um, you've got lanes, and each one of these lanes represents a type of um You mean like imagining your workdays a big motorway with lots of different lanes on it. Exactly that, yeah, right? So you've got you've got all these lanes and you can have different colours for those lanes. So if anybody's ever been to the United States and driven on the motorways, the highways, freeways there, you know how big or Germany, you know how many lanes they have there. They have quite a lot of lanes, don't they? I can remember free. Obviously that stretch coming into Peterborough from the south. Oh, okay, let's keep it closer to home then. I prefer thinking about that. I remember the time I've talked about that before, but the Disney thing, when there were lots of lanes. I got confused. Kept driving us to Disney. I kept driving to the wrong place though. We went to Magic Kingdom again. Again for the sixteenth time, but anyway, missing the right lane. Okay, but these lanes Um and each lane has got a different type of of energy, if you like. Not importance, that's really important to say that. It's not about the importance of the different lanes. So it's not a hierarchy, no, it's a different type of energy. So, um, so for instance, for me, I might have a creative lane. So that's for me, that's writing and ideas and problem solving, that sort of stuff. Um, whereas I've got a people lane, so that would be things like calls, meetings, um how can I word it? Emotional labour, if you like. So the stuff that's gonna take a little bit more of my spoons.

SPEAKER_00: 25:42

Whereas the creative lane is so just to make it clear for me, when you're talking about that creative lane, yeah, because I know you enjoy being creative, are you talking about the kind of creativity where you enjoy it and you get lost in it like we might in art or that I can do your design? You know, really high energy and you're talking about that kind of intense focus where you have to Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly that.

SPEAKER_01: 26:05

Yes, exactly. You're able to really put your heart and soul into that and really focus in on the on the on the.

SPEAKER_00: 26:11

So they might be two different lanes for me because if I'm doing creativity, if I'm creating, I don't know, a load of graphics or redoing the like when I was creating the brand for for this podcast. Yeah. I'd really enjoy that and I'd yes, I'd be hyper focusing, but I'd feel quite light with it and quite on a high with it. Whereas if I'm having to do something that's I don't know, in that that for me takes a lot of intense focus, something like, I don't know, fill in a in a reform or a reform, filling in a form. I'd like to take out reform, not fill in like filling in a form or um writing a report that takes a lot of kind of technical brain power, they would be two different lanes for me. So I'd be separating out cre separating out creativity to intense focus. Okay. Does that make sense? Yeah, so so for brain-based focus as opposed to kind of star child, enthusiastic creative focus.

SPEAKER_01: 27:05

So for me then, let's look at that with my work. So mine would be I do a lot of proofreading for people. Yeah. So that is quite sometimes it's quite in-depth, you know, that it takes quite a bit of time. So that I need to be really focused in on that.

SPEAKER_00: 27:17

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 27:18

So that for me is quite high brain activity in terms of yeah, I've got to be on it and I've got to be fresh to do that. So for instance, one of the things we'll talk about in a minute as well, isn't it? We've talked about the kind of time zones through the day and what are your your best time zones. Yeah. So for me, I know that that work for me really now with this new system in place, is something that I want to do earlier on in the day because by the time I get to kind of late afternoon, my spoons are dwindling a bit, so I need to be really you know focused on that. Does that help you?

SPEAKER_00: 27:46

Yeah, whereas I'm I'm more on things by later in the afternoon.

SPEAKER_01: 27:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 27:50

So two, three o'clock. Between two and four of my creative times if I'm having a day to myself.

SPEAKER_01: 27:55

Yeah, yeah. So that's me. So so we've got that. So for me, we talked about that, and then we've talked about there's the lane for things like you know, all the kind of sort of day-to-day stuff, the stuff that doesn't need quite so many, you know, um bits of brain power in terms of admin and stuff. Your admin, your admin, your films, your practical tasks, your emails, that kind of stuff. Um, and then of course, we all need this, and if you're not doing this now, this is what if you take nothing else from this episode, please instill this into your working week. And I'm sure a lot of you do, but if you don't, or you have done and you've let it slide, this is your reminder to reinstall this now. Um, your rest and recovery lane. So this is your space to just down towards a tiny little cycle lane to chill out, and that might be that might be something as simple, and it is as simple as this for me. Sometimes this will be for me a ten-minute break to put the kettle on, grab a cupper, go out in the garden with the dogs for ten minutes, run round with them for a bit, and then come back in, get a bit of fresh air, go round the block, whatever it may be. But that's so integral to this, to make this work for you, to help you help you work with it and give of your best through the working week. So that's that's part of what we're doing. And then you give them a colour. So you've got four lanes.

SPEAKER_02: 29:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 29:12

Right, okay. So so that's me, but we might have as many lanes as we want. You know, this is what I'm saying, you're not going to be able to do it.

SPEAKER_00: 29:17

If you have too many lanes, then you're gonna go into overwhelmed with your lanes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 29:20

Yeah, so I'd keep it, I think four or five lanes for me anyway, is the sweet spot. But what have a think about that now? And if you're quite a visual person, if you can visualize that lovely kind of motorway, you know when you come up to you're coming up to um a change in the major road, and you'll get all the signs on on the road itself, so the markers to know which lane to be in. Imagine it like that. So you've got it all spelt out for you. So this one is for me, it would be my if you like my creative lane, and then there's another one for my people lane, so that might be my one-to-ones with people, um, my yeah, and then also my meetings, my calls, that sort of stuff. Um, and then there'll be another one that will say on on their admin lane, so that's where I'm doing all the things I talked about, the films and all the practical little tasks, everyday stuff that needs doing. Um, so if it helps, draw it out, you know. I I think that would work because you're quite a visual person, would that be?

SPEAKER_00: 30:10

I'm already thinking. So I think I'd have I'd have a create a business creative lane. So there'll be things like um writing posts and emails, creating graphics, all of the stuff that a lot of people think, I don't want to do that, I want to outsource it, and I love that, and I'm like not letting go of that ever. Yeah. Um, that would be my kind of creative lane. Then I'd have a coaching lane, yeah, which would be for actually coaching people, working with people, so your people lane. And then I'd have uh an intensity lane, if you like. So that might be some of the admin tasks that um that I haven't thrown at D yet. Standby D if you like. Well the things that I know I need to do, but I really don't want to do them because they're gonna take a lot of brain power. That but that would be my kind of intensity lane. And then I'd have two lanes, I think, for for rest and recovery. So I'd have my rest and recovery lane. Okay. But I'd also have a downtime inspiration and creativity lane.

SPEAKER_01: 31:13

Well that's nice, I'd like to add that as well now, I think.

SPEAKER_00: 31:15

Because some of my rest and recovery time, I might want to I don't know, I've had a stack of modeling clays sitting underneath the exercise bike for about a year I haven't touched. I'm like, I don't know. Let's make some femogonks, whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 31:26

Yeah. Oh, there's a dood there's a golden doodle on the mood. She's moving. She's moving, she's make oh, she's gone.

SPEAKER_00: 31:31

Oh, now where are we gonna put the laptop daddy? I'm joking, I'm joking. We were holding it above her. Right. So because if I kept just a rest and recovery lane, I can imagine that with way the way my brain works, I'd go, I'm not resting and recovering, I'm doing craft work. I'm not sitting and sleeping or meditating.

SPEAKER_01: 31:49

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 31:50

So I might break my downtime into two lanes. One that's kind of inspiration and creativity. And inspiration could be watching something that's uh educational or going to a museum or reading a book. Whereas creativity could be actually getting my hands on painting, crafting, creating, carving stuff, whatever.

SPEAKER_01: 32:11

So all these lanes. So if you're picturing these lanes or just imagining these lanes, if you're drawing those out, think about your lanes. What are your lanes going to be? And also, here's the thing how much time are you spending in each lane? Because the other thing is, remember, you don't have to stay in one lane, just as we would be on a motorway, a freeway, we can move lanes, and we need to move lanes to move forward in a positive way, don't we, to get where we want to get to. So that's the other thing. When that burnout happens, if it does happen for you, it's often when we live in just one of those those what I call kind of Bailey, you scratching the coca pooch sand in the bed in the background. Yeah, it's one so it's about having that ability and that awareness to change lanes when you need to. So, for instance, there's nothing to stop you from deciding on that day, okay, you're in that high energy lane, but hang on a minute, I've done that, I've spent, I don't know, 90 minutes in that high energy lane. I'm feeling a little bit out of sorts now, I feel a bit overwhelmed. I'm going to change lanes for a while. And it might only be, as I said, it could be, you know, 10-15 minutes, but just enough to change.

SPEAKER_00: 33:18

But I could tie in with kind of theories behind Pomodoro techniques and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01: 33:22

Exactly that. But changing lanes, because burnout happens when we stay in that one lane, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00: 33:26

So your sustainability comes from intentionally switching your lanes.

SPEAKER_01: 33:30

Yeah. Because I know again, particularly for self-clairing.

SPEAKER_00: 33:34

Particularly for neurodivergent brains, we can go into hyperfocus with something. Even if it's something that we know is exhausting, yeah, we can go into hyperfocus. And if we don't intentionally break the hyperfocus, that's where we can burn out really easily. And the other thing, just to bring in here for a minute now, um, I was talking to someone the other day and saying, well, you know, they work all the time because they love their work. And I was saying that I love my work, and actually that's a danger zone, because even though we love our work, the idea that if you love your work, you never work a day in your life is a myth. Because you are still using your energy levels, your brain, your emotions, you're still using everything that makes you you. You're still it's very, very easy to tip over your capacity when you're doing something you love because it feels easy until you're absolutely burned out.

SPEAKER_01: 34:26

That's a really good point. Because I think we can all relate to that, particularly when you work in your own business, you're so passionate about what you do and you love what you do, so why would you not carry on till ten o'clock at night?

SPEAKER_00: 34:37

Well, that's why those lanes help as well, isn't it? Because we if we can start becoming consciously aware, and I'm already thinking I don't use um a paper diary, but I might start I might get one just to so I can literally colour code on it. And I know I can do that on elect electronic diaries as well, but can't be asked with the faff. But being consciously aware of which lane we're in will start to make the stuff that is invisible the invisible labour it starts to make invisible labour visible.

SPEAKER_01: 35:08

Because it's so easy to dismiss it, forget about it. If you've got a visual reminder of that, and I think actually here we go again, I've mentioned it before, but Magic Whiteboard's great for that. Have one of those lovely things up on your wall that you can change daily, weekly, and so you know where you are at any time and remembering, you know, having almost like a mantra that says I have the ability to be able to change lanes when I want to change lanes.

SPEAKER_00: 35:30

Yeah, or when I need to. When I need to, exactly. So maybe is it worth almost mapping out in advance how much at the start of your day when you're doing your planning or the night before? I never do mine the night before. I can't sleep at all. Yeah, I can again. But would you then work out how much time each day you need in each lane?

unknown: 35:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 35:47

So you might follow code, I don't know, so here's the one.

SPEAKER_01: 35:51

I'll tell you where this came for me. Out of really silly things. So, for instance, we talked about a l earlier on about a lot of trashy telly, yeah, a lot of you know, binge watching series, which we did a lot over Christmas when we were poorly, basically. Yeah. But from that I realised I've got a sweet spot for if I watch too much telly, I'm not in a good space. So I have a two-hour cutting cutting off time. That's too frequently broke over Christmas Eve. Same with my work, my sweet spot before I need a break, usually, which probably doesn't sound a lot of time, but particularly if it's creative work or proofreading where it's quite intensive, I do 90 minutes to two hours. 90 minutes usually, sometimes a bit less, depending on how I'm doing on that day. If my spoons are low or I've got lots of spoons, but I will cut off at 90 minutes and take a break. And if it's only a five minute break, it's usually get up, have a stretch, go for a week, change body change stuff, yeah, go out in the garden for five minutes, get some fresh air. I do that, and the difference that makes, that simple thing, for a lot of people, I'm sure a lot of you do it anyway, but if you're not doing it, try it. What's your sweet stop spot in terms of timing, Taz? What about you?

SPEAKER_00: 36:57

Yeah, it depends what I'm doing for me. And actually this brings up another point that another useful exercise for me, I think, might I don't know if this is going to be useful for any of you listening. But to sit and literally write out every type of task that I do and then put in some divisions between what is classed as work and what is classed as play. Ooh, okay. Yeah, that makes that sounds good. Because for instance, sometimes you'll say to me, Well, that's work. For me, recording podcasts, that that's not work. That's that's another thing, whereas for you it's work. And I suppose technically it's part of our business.

SPEAKER_01: 37:32

That makes me sound that I really don't like it, and I love it. No, not at all.

SPEAKER_00: 37:35

But it's about time. So if I'm I've been doing a lot of uh what's the technical word for it? Dicking about on threads these past couple of weeks. I've been on threads for ages, but I've not really paid much attention to it because you know so many plates spinning. But I started an account for this for this podcast only a few weeks back, or a week or so back, I think. And I've been you've been playing with that a lot in downtime, and it doesn't feel like work. It feels like I'm I'm going into geeky hyperfocus, and oh, how do we get into these communities? How do we do that? How do we create more engagement? Yeah. And I la I allow myself that in the evenings because I enjoy it and it doesn't feel like work. But should that be in my work lane?

SPEAKER_01: 38:18

Hmm. Well that's for you to answer, isn't it? Really?

SPEAKER_00: 38:21

So that's maybe in your head where would it be on how to do it? Creating some more clear divisions between what's work and what's play might be useful. So there was one night over the over the break where Tilly had kept me awake for most of the night, I'd come downstairs with her. And because I was too wired, I sat up and mapped out an entire new workbook oblique journal for near divergent people, which will become reality at some point. But that's how hyper focus I can be.

SPEAKER_02: 38:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 38:50

Literally, overnight, you woke up and I was like, Look, I've got this, look, look at this book, look.

SPEAKER_01: 38:54

There's me just stumbling over the cat trying to wake up and find the kettle, and Taz has got, yeah, but that's you want tea or coffee? I don't know, I don't know, I want to talk about this journal.

SPEAKER_00: 39:03

There's the hyperfocus again.

SPEAKER_01: 39:04

Yeah. So yeah. So, okay, so we've got all this. So if you like the idea of the lanes, we talked about those lanes. So what are we gonna how are we gonna kind of check in, and particularly if you work with other people or in a relationship, like we will obviously work together, live together. We started thinking about how we're gonna check in with this, don't we? Because that's really important, isn't it? You know, about checking language, you know, like finding the language, the conversation to open that up to say, how are you doing today? How are your spoons? We talk about spoons a lot, but for those of us that do you want to explain that?

SPEAKER_00: 39:35

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's the spoon theory, isn't it? So and it came from from somebody using spoons of sugar to that to demonstrate how much energy they had. So how many spoons you have. And if I'm if we're on a low spoon day, it means we don't have much capacity for anything. It's you know, pretty much at the stage of you know, tree pretty fire hot. So bit in the under tool thinking. Um But I think even before we get to that point, just to add in one of the other conversations we've been having on the book, I'm just thoughts popping in from left field somewhere. It's about looking at what's caused your overwhelm burnout in the first place. So for instance, one of the things I'm promising myself that I'm gonna do this year is keep my boundaries clearer. So it was not unusual at all, even if we'd stopped speaking with clients. I sometimes wouldn't be finishing with clients till 8, 8:30, sometimes later. And then I'd still have bits of admin to do. So you know, Ash might have the TV on in the background or be on your exercise bike, but I'd still be I've been on that for weeks. It's alright, we've joined the gym now, so it's alright.

SPEAKER_01: 40:48

We haven't gone yet, but we've joined.

SPEAKER_00: 40:50

Um I'd still be doing bits bits of admin right through till 10, 11 o'clock at night. And it had just crept. I I called it client creep. Not that my clients are creeps, they're all bloody lovely, but the work that was related to my client load crept further and further into my time. So it's about putting some boundaries in and getting clearer about them.

SPEAKER_02: 41:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 41:09

So clients who've historically wanted to see me in evenings, I'm starting to say now, let's move these into the daytime. Um, where historically we'd run some group programmes in the evenings, we're starting to move them back into afternoons, just starting to ring f ring fence our time more and be more aware of that, and trying to really keep the downtime that you've marked in sacrosanct.

SPEAKER_02: 41:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 41:32

The only time that's really moving for me now is let's say um if I get a speaking gig coming in and it happens to be in a week that had marked us off. If we're not abroad, I'm probably gonna take the gig.

SPEAKER_01: 41:42

It comes back to that thing we talked about before though, isn't it? You know, when we've spoken on previous podcasts about um finding we haven't got space to have a holiday because we've looked everything else in. Yeah, it's about changing that around so it's not selfish to actually put your own needs first in that in that way to say, right, okay, so what are we gonna pencil out for us first and we'll build everything else around that? That's actually the best thing we can be doing for your clients because then you're gonna be on it and with it. Exactly, and that's the joy of being self-employed, but I think we'd forgotten that. Yeah. In fact, if we've ever really adopted that totally, I don't think we have. And I think it took this happening over the last few weeks to realise that we've been there for so long that actually now by working in a slightly different way and putting our own stuff higher up that list, if you like, will be so good for both of us. But I actually ultimately so good for our clients because, as you said, we'll be fresher, we'll be, you know, less um taken off by a Lurgy as I as we both were because we were so low on spoons.

SPEAKER_00: 42:45

So I'm hoping this way will work really good. And big shout out to Daniel Holmes of Black Nova Designs at this point as well. Ah, yes. Who specifically said, could we talk to people on our podcast about the myth of you know working 22 hours a day is what you need to do to create success.

SPEAKER_01: 43:00

Yeah, good one, Daniel. Thank you for that pointer.

SPEAKER_00: 43:03

So no, it doesn't, it's quite the opposite. Quite the opposite. Yeah. Snick a bad Brad Burton phrase a few years back, he was talking about creating success instead of success. And that's exactly that.

SPEAKER_02: 43:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 43:15

So no, as we're demonstrating now, long working hours is not key to success, whatever the guru twats try to tell you online. You know, they might look like they're working all hours god sense, but they've probably also got a team behind them. Yeah. Okay, so you were talking about moving more into home life. Um so we've been talking a lot, haven't we, about really honestly communicating with each other at the end of the day, how much energy we have left, how many spoons we've got.

SPEAKER_01: 43:42

But also not just about at the end of the day, if you get the opportunity during the day. During the day, regular check-ins. In those breaks, just seeing how things are, how are you?

SPEAKER_00: 43:50

How are you in that and also some of those things you started to do with me last year, you know? Why don't you somebody on a you know, even if it was a five, ten minute break, she'd be saying things like, Do you need a wee? Have you drunk water? Yeah, body check. Yeah. Is your body feeling okay?

SPEAKER_02: 44:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 44:07

Yeah, what do you need? Have you moved? Have you been outside? All of those little checks, because again, and this is particularly prevalent for neurodivergent people, we tend to not do those things, we tend to just put them off.

SPEAKER_02: 44:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 44:20

Have you eaten? Yeah. No.

SPEAKER_01: 44:23

Yeah. Yeah. Very unimportant. Simple things, but so is simple check-ins. Can make such a huge difference. So these so we've got a couple of ideas, haven't we, with this? Yeah, we've been talking about it and also then running it through AI and having a chat with AI about it as well. So, do you want to tackle the first one? And I'll tackle the next one because I like the next one. I like the second one a bit more.

SPEAKER_00: 44:42

Yeah, so being open with the the people you share your life with about what percentage you're at. So that could be energy, emotional levels, mental capacity, whatever it is for you, or just generally speaking. So it could be I'm at I'm only I'm at about 40% tonight, or I'm running at about 20%, so I need very little input, please. Or it could be I've got a solid 70% if we need to do something.

SPEAKER_01: 45:07

Yeah, cool.

SPEAKER_00: 45:08

Okay, so you had you preferred something like a traffic light system, didn't you?

SPEAKER_01: 45:11

I like, I mean, again, you've probably nothing terribly new really, but I think it's really effective for me because again, I'm quite a visual, I'm a visual learner, a visual, so I I like that approach because I can I can imagine that I can see that traffic light. So for instance, green is I've got loads of I've got plenty of energy, I'm open to loads of plans, engagement, doing things, fantastic. Amber, I've got some energy, but can we keep it kind of fairly simple today, tonight, whatever? I'm not, you know, I'm not 100%. I'm kind of I'm there. So and then we've got red. So I've lost my spoons are gone, I need rest, downtime, quiet, very low demand, that kind of thing. And I think those again, it's just opening that conversation, keeping it going. And again, having a visual on something like a on a board or something, if you've got that in your office or your home office or wherever you are, just to remind you, where am I? Checking in for yourself, but then also checking in with the people around you.

SPEAKER_00: 46:02

It's also about, isn't it? That's a two-way communication stream.

SPEAKER_02: 46:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 46:07

So let's say you are a partnership where you mix up who does dinner. Yeah. It might be a real open and honest when you get back, I'm at 60%, well I'm at 40%, okay. Well, 60%, well say, well, I'll I'll do dinner tonight then. Yeah. But without it's not about, you know, um control or it it it's a system that removes control or resentment. It's just about absolute honesty with one another.

SPEAKER_02: 46:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 46:33

So that's that's really important. And then it's uh we we talked about practical tips, didn't we, for from you know, amber and red days. Yeah. So if you're in your if you're on your own, pre-decide low effort meals. One of the habits we've fallen into, and unfortunately, we did it again last night. Neither of us has got any energy, or we better be able to do that.

SPEAKER_01: 46:52

What do we do? If we added up, and we say about you know ADHD tax, yeah, if we added up how many takeaways we have when we're in that low spoons move place, um, we'd be Rodney would be millionaires. Yeah. But we would be because it's yeah, and we fell into it again last night.

SPEAKER_00: 47:08

So it gets chucked away because you buy the food with the healthy intentions, but then either you haven't got the energy to do it, or you can't be asked to go and clear the kitchen enough to start cooking.

SPEAKER_01: 47:15

And I guess sometimes that's where some of the you know the things that you can you can have now with without naming any of them, but some of the you know that we can you can bring in the meals ready to go, or you just all the you know the what do I mean? What's the word pre prepped pre-prepped? That's the word, thank you very much. So that can be useful for people too. I know a couple of friends of ours have have suggested that. We haven't quite got around to that yet, but yeah, maybe something to look at in 2026 for sure.

SPEAKER_00: 47:39

Other things you can do if you know you're you're running on empty, reduce your choices. So it might be you're having the same dinner several nights on the road, it might be uh you've got your clothes pre-laid out or it's or you're wearing the same types of clothes, so you've not got to go and I'm not telling you to go and be Mark Zuckerberg and just wear a great t-shirt, but keep to the same kind of pattern of things or the same routines.

SPEAKER_01: 48:01

And that again, that's also about sometimes. I mean, I know when we go back to the gym we'll probably do the same again. The best thing was getting stuff prepping it the night before, so you're ready to go, so you're literally you were telling me, sorry, off topic slightly. We haven't been too bad today actually on this, it's been quite on topic, but I'm gonna go off topic now a little bit.

SPEAKER_00: 48:17

But you were telling me that people actually um sleep in that some people sleep in their gym and I was like, uh Yeah, if somebody's if somebody struggles to get up and get out, let's say somebody knows they need to go and have a run first thing in the morning, yeah, they'll put their trainers next to the bed, get dressed in their running gear the night before, and then straight out of bed, feet straight into the trainers that are by the by the bed and out the door.

SPEAKER_01: 48:41

I can see the thing in that, but part of me goes, uh, but I suppose that's you know.

SPEAKER_00: 48:44

I wouldn't recommend that for going to the gym because you know you'll be sweaty by the time you get there.

SPEAKER_01: 48:47

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.

SPEAKER_00: 48:49

If you if you're out running on your own, you're okay. But if there's any way where you're gonna do it. If anybody's downwind of you, it'll be different. Yeah. Okay. We're suggesting that we get really smelly quickly overnight now. Yeah, we are, aren't we?

SPEAKER_01: 49:01

I know. Well, anyway, let's not be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00: 49:03

Yeah, deodorant before bed.

SPEAKER_01: 49:04

Sorry, everybody, I hope you're not having breakfast or tea or dinner or anything else.

SPEAKER_00: 49:08

Essentially, you are giving yourself permission to do less and not to just push through. Oh, that's my classic. No, just push through. Just gotta keep going, just gotta keep stubborn. There are gonna be times in life where we do need to just push through where we've got a lunch coming up or something, a project that's approaching the approaching deadline. But that should be that should be the noticeable time. That's the standout time where you notice pushing through, not the norm.

SPEAKER_02: 49:32

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 49:33

You know, you shouldn't notice having downtime, you should notice having to push through. Um if you're if you live with others, tell them what's possible, not just what isn't. So for example, yeah, I can sit with you but can't talk much.

unknown: 49:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 49:47

Something as simple as that, or I can help for 10 minutes and then I need to rest. You know, if you start sharing your capacity earlier rather than waking, wait waking, waiting until you're actually at breaking point. And we've done that, haven't we?

SPEAKER_01: 50:02

Quite far too many times when we've got to that point where we've got really bickery with one another, really ratty because we haven't communicated that and we've just got further and further down the rabbit hole of being of spoons are there are no spoons left.

SPEAKER_00: 50:16

And historically it's got to the point where we're having a big rail where one of us is crying, we don't know what we're arguing about. And it's not until somebody gets to the point of actually being so upset the tears come that's right.

SPEAKER_01: 50:25

And then that kind of breaks the spell, if you like, doesn't it? What are we doing? Yeah, exactly. So we you know, to avoid that, you know, have those conversations early, and it does make such a huge difference, it certainly has for us.

SPEAKER_00: 50:36

So simple tips for making work days more sustainable that we wrote down before we start.

SPEAKER_01: 50:40

Now, one of the big ones for me now is batching similar tasks. So for me, um, some of that might be um I don't know, I mean, obviously sometimes social. Yeah. Um, I'll batch tasks around social posting and things like that. Now I've not done that traditional, I haven't. I've had this thing about it's got to be live and when I'm inspired, but actually the reality of that is you you know, you can't work like that. So you can't sustain that over time, and that can also lead to burnout if you're trying to carry, you know. I found that when I was going out, I was constantly thinking about I haven't posted today, what can I do today? And losing myself in that and the stress of not having done something, you know, and you can get lost in that. So I think there is a time for that to go with something that's coming for you that you want it something coming to you, so you want to get out there.

SPEAKER_00: 51:26

Recognizing the different types of social posts, isn't it? Because some of them can be more information-based. Oh, yeah, yeah. In which case they can be scheduled. Yeah, yeah. But the ones where you want to be engaging more or it's more time sensitive. Did anybody see this on TV this morning?

SPEAKER_01: 51:40

Yeah, yeah, of course. You need you need capacity for that as well, definitely. But I was telling you, I was relying just on that.

SPEAKER_00: 51:46

No, if you and I have I still do. I too. Yeah, I need to start. But we both said that we should take time out to batch produce the ones that aren't tied that that that either tie into a launch that we've got planned, so we're not worr worrying about doing them in that launch phase where we want to be creating the actual product and getting ready ready for it. Um, we can also batch produce and schedule anything that again is information based and still pop in regularly to engage, yeah, but anything information-based or time-based, you can schedule in in advance.

SPEAKER_01: 52:19

And the other thing I was going to talk about was this trying to avoid back-to-back, like really high-energy stuff. So things that with a cognitive load, it's really got that high energy that you need. Yeah, you know, mix it up a bit, take a break from that for a while, go and do something that's less draining of that energy, yeah, so that you can come back to it afresh. And that for me has been a massive changer for me, just thinking about that and seeing that working just in these last few days when I've I'm getting back to work again after the festive break. Yeah. So that's really important. Would you agree? Would you do that? I think you do that one actually anyway. You have been doing it for a while, haven't you?

SPEAKER_00: 52:53

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And also the um the good old water between the whiskies, as I call it, make sure you've got some decompression time built in between lanes. Now, in the times where I've been really up against it and cramming in too many clients, I've sometimes had clients running back to back.

SPEAKER_02: 53:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 53:10

You know, where I've had to message and say, with you in five minutes, I just need a we, you know. Whereas ideally, I like to build 15 to 30 minutes in between clients to make any notes you needed to make about that session, or to just take a breather, do something completely different, clear the energy from the client before and and your thoughts from the client before, and move cleanly into the next client piece of work, whatever it happens to be. Building enough time.

SPEAKER_01: 53:38

I always for me, the classics for me that really help are simple things, and this might make sense to some of the listeners, just simple is putting the kettle on, having a c making a cup of tea, going outside for five minutes.

SPEAKER_00: 53:50

I suppose it's to use your motorway analogy with your lanes. Yeah. It's like remembering you need to indicate before you pull over. Yeah. So we're just we're just pulling over without actually indicating. Yeah, that's a good way. Bringing it actually. Remember your indication time.

SPEAKER_01: 54:03

Yeah. So what else? The other thing as well, I've realised I was what led to some of the burnout, a lot of the burnout, was trying to serve so many different people in different elements of my business because I do lots of quite a few different things. Um disparate. Yeah, that's good. That was a good word. I love that word. Um, rather than kind of getting into the habit, and this is what I'm trying to do more of this year, of normalizing this kind of today is an admin day, but tomorrow is um client facing. So this is a client day today. Um, you know, Monday is um something else, so it's it's about I don't know, it's high energy, you know, first thing in the day, it's high energy, proofreading, doing that kind of stuff, reports, things like that. That is where I was going wrong. I was trying to do a bit of everything every day, and that's not sustain sustainable, can't even say it now. And I think that's one of the things the traps I fell into without even realizing it. I didn't used to do that, but I'd got into the habit of doing that for quite a few months, if not a couple of years, and again going back to lockdown. I don't know what happened during lockdown, but I think the way we worked changed so much, had such an impact. Has anybody else noticed that too in the way you what you the way you were working after after lockdown? And what have you had to kind of trim back or change since then? Is that still having an impact for you now if you look at it in those ways? So, yeah, you're getting licked by a cockapootas, or why don't you do that? Um we're gonna have to wrap this up fairly quickly because I need a wee.

SPEAKER_00: 55:40

Oh, so we're nearly on an hour and we're only gonna do a 30 minutes.

SPEAKER_01: 55:43

Right, okay, well, we've better.

SPEAKER_00: 55:44

So it's about normalizing the recog recognising which lane you're in, so it might be being able to say today is an admin day. Yeah. Or today is mainly an admin day this morning, and then I'm switching into a different lane this afternoon, or today is not a people heavy day. Yeah. And that's okay. So we also said that we'd we'd build in a couple of things to reframe some of these burnout conversations, didn't we? Yeah. So again, instead of seeing burnout, burning out as a failure, don't stop beating yourself up over it. It's information. Or a badge. Or a badge. Yeah. Because that's the other thing, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01: 56:18

Yeah, a medal. You know, it doesn't mean you're a more serious business person because you've been in burnout. Woo!

SPEAKER_00: 56:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 56:23

It's something to be aware of, but it's neither a badge or a um medal of honor or a failure.

SPEAKER_00: 56:28

Or a failure. It's just information. Um, and it's about learning uh to work with your lanes or whatever system you come up with, or to recognise how many spoons you've got, what percentage of energy you've got, all those signals, remember that is stuff that is building your nervous system literacy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 56:46

Just checking in to see where you are with that. Where are you today?

SPEAKER_00: 56:49

It's not about doing less forever, it's about doing life without breaking yourself in the process, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01: 56:56

I suppose it is really, isn't it? Yeah. But it's yeah, and I think simple things like this, once you get into that space of working in this way, it can have such a as I said, it's early days because I'm literally in the first week of experimenting with this and seeing how it's going. But so far, so good. And if any of this kind of resonates with anybody listening, please let us know what you do, what you've found from your own experiences of if you've whether you've reached burnout, you're in burnout, you think you might be, or you come out the other side of it, whatever it may be, or you never experience burnout. You know, what are you doing to protect your own your own health and well-being? Because at the end of the day, this is what this is all about, isn't it? Yeah, it's about that. Because when we're healthy and we're well mentally, physically, then it means we can we can work better for ourselves and also to serve our clients.

SPEAKER_00: 57:44

So enjoy the process more. Totally, totally. So maybe try some of the things we've talked about today. Try try the lanes thing, try having more regular check-ins with yourself, try just having one honest conversation about how you're feeling and um where your capacity is at. What do you need to do to build more sustainability into the year ahead? Because it's the sustainability that helps us to stay well, and well enough to keep showing up.

SPEAKER_01: 58:13

I just want to shout, I almost want to shout that deal. You know, to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00: 58:16

Oh, we could reframe that. It is, and there's nothing wrong with selfish. Okay, we need to reclaim it.

SPEAKER_01: 58:21

Okay, we'll do it like that.

SPEAKER_00: 58:22

But sustainability is the key here. Totally. Totally. It's about it's about doing the things that we know we need. Exactly. So we've had quite a good, I think we've done we've done quite well today.

SPEAKER_01: 58:34

We've not gone too off topic. No. We have gone twice over the time we said we were gonna do. Oh well. Well, I think it's an important topic. So do let us know. Give us your you know, give us some feedback on the show. Let us know what you think about things, what your experience have been of burnout, if any. Yeah. Um, your tips for people working, particularly I think working from home too, working for yourself. That's the whole thing. Yeah, so please do, and let us know if there's anything else you'd like us to tackle on this topic, get in touch with us so we can we can follow up and hopefully do another podcast.

SPEAKER_00: 59:05

And also remember, you can now find Awesomely off topic as itself on Facebook, Instagram, and threads. Good job, Taz. So please do come and find us, come and look us up. Um, we'd love to get a few more followers and we're going to start sharing more stuff there. And uh, with that, we will see you next Tuesday. You've been listening to Awesomely Off Topic with Taz Thornton and Nature Clearwater. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure you follow or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. And if you want to connect, you'll find us online. Just search for our names. Stay awesome, stay off topic, and we'll see you next time.