🎙️ Episode 34: ADHD Is Not The Same As ADHD

ADHD Is Not ADHD

ADHD gets talked about as if it’s one thing, with one set of traits and one way of showing up. In real life, that simply isn’t how it works.

In this episode, we talk openly about how ADHD shows up differently in each of us, where we overlap, where we don’t, and how wide the spectrum really is. We share what we’ve learned about our own brains over time, the assumptions we had to unpick, and the practical adjustments that made things easier rather than harder.

We explore the challenges that come from expecting sameness, both in relationships and in work, and why irritation often comes from misunderstanding rather than malice. We also talk about the shift from frustration to curiosity, and how getting interested in how brains and emotions work can change the dynamic completely.

This episode isn’t about labels, hacks, or fixing anyone. It’s about lived experience, difference, communication and learning how to work with each other instead of against each other.

A human conversation for anyone with ADHD, anyone who loves someone with ADHD, or anyone trying to understand why “the same diagnosis” can look so different from one person to the next.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:01

Welcome to Autumnly Off Topic, the podcast that refuses to stay in its plane. We're Asher and Ant, ex-journalists, now coaches, creators and chaos-embracing business owners. Each episode will dive into the world of books, branding, visibility, content, business, and wherever else our ADHD brains take us. This is unfiltered, unscripted, occasionally unhinged, and totally ups.

SPEAKER_00: 0:29

Welcome to another episode of Awesomely Off Topic. And do you know, when we look at our podcast stats at the ones that have been listened to the most, and also one of the topics that people ask us to talk more on, more and more and more, more on, not more on, is ADHD. So there's a reason that we've called this episode ADHD is not ADHD. And it's because there are so many differences. ADHD is such a massive, massive spectrum. And as I've said many times before, I didn't even know I had ADHD until perimenopause hit. And all of these things that I'd been inadvertently masking for my entire life came up and bit me on the bum. But even then I didn't realise it was ADHD until one of our lovely friends and clients said to Ash, I think you might be ADHD. Have you ever thought about getting tested? And Ash was so kind of worried about it that I said about me at all. I said, Don't be silly, don't be silly. Look, we'll go, we'll go and do some of the online tests. I'll do them with you. And um, surprise, surprise, I had it too. In fact, my score in some areas was higher than Ash's. And that's how this whole journey of discovery began. But Ash, you've decided that up to now you don't want to go and get a diagnosis, do you?

SPEAKER_01: 1:51

At this time it feels not I'm not maybe not not even about being ready for it. It just doesn't feel right for me. Yeah. Doesn't mean I'd say I'd never do it. I just at the moment, with what I'm learning through your own experience of getting your diagnosis and all the things we're learning about. One of the clients you have. And a partnership, yes, and one of my clients working in that area as well. So I feel like I'm on a really big, deep learning curve, um, and that's enough for now for me. But who knows what tomorrow could bring. I'm not saying never, but I'm just saying at this moment I've just got loads to to mull over and think about. Um, and I'm finding it really fascinating to learn more about it. Every time um I do any work around this or I'm supporting my client or I'm talking to you about it, I learn something new about not just about ADHD, but also about myself.

SPEAKER_00: 2:42

Um honestly, the only reason I went for a diagnosis, because initially I was absolutely adamant I wasn't taking medication. I am. Um not the usual one. They initially stelted me off on one of the stimulants, did not work for me at all, and I've ended up on a non-stimulant ADHD med along with some antidepressants that was put on for when I first went into perimenopause. There's another story for another day about that. I was adamant I wouldn't go on antidepressants again after my breakdown. But then, you know, when when my body started showing me that it was missing some of the chemicals it needed in order to just function, I'm yeah, okay. So I'm on this mix now that are specifically kind of mixed for ADHD and they're working well. But the main reason I went is that like everything that I go through, I always go to that point of how can I use this to help other people? And I knew that if I wanted to start educating, supporting, and helping people with some kind of neurodivergence, if I didn't actually have a diagnosis, I would have people saying I was unqualified, I was self-diagnosed, it didn't count, blah blah blah. So that's why I did it. I wanted to go through the process, learn about it, and be able to say, No, I am lore. But through this entire process, Ash has been heavily involved in my diagnostic process and also through the titration period where they're trying to work out which meds will work and whether we need them, or the rest of it. Um, mine don't give me that that instant, well, this is amazing feeling. They just help me to focus more. You've recognised more about yourself, and when you've looked about that across that ADHD or DHD spectrum, yeah, you've recognised yourself in many different areas, but at the other end to me. So for anyone who doesn't know, there are three core named types of ADHD. There's inattentive, so the ones who are usually called a kind of dreamer at school. There's hyperactive, so back when we were kids it would have been always a boy bouncing off the rock walls, and they used to say it had too much RNG or fancy.

SPEAKER_01: 4:50

Yeah, that was it, that's how we le wasn't it, we learnt about it. That was our first time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 4:56

Of course it wasn't, but that's what that's what they were saying at the time.

SPEAKER_02: 4:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 4:59

And then there's the combination of the two is combined. I am combined, I have bits of both. I also have some autistic traits, but not enough to be specifically diagnosed as autistic. What's interesting though, and this was described right at the beginning, when I went onto the medication and that started to control things, I was warned that more of my autistic traits might start to come up, which has absolutely happened. So I am uh combined ADHD with some autistic traits. And Asher, from the research you've done and from talking to my specialist and some of the stuff you've been reading and your level of understanding. Where do you believe that you sit? And I've just done a classic thing. I've started to ask Asher a question just as she's about to cough.

SPEAKER_01: 5:43

So I'm now going to sorry, this is the blue leg you I had at griffmas.

SPEAKER_00: 5:48

I'm now going to just fill for a few seconds.

SPEAKER_01: 5:49

You will have a slurf of a drink.

SPEAKER_00: 5:51

Oh, we'll just fill for a few seconds. So back to that idea of the boys that were bouncing off the bathrooms.

SPEAKER_01: 5:56

This happened on a previous episode, didn't you?

SPEAKER_00: 5:57

I know. Um back in the day, it wasn't even recognised that girls could have ADHD. It was described as being something that only impacted boys. In fact, one of the things that really upset me when people were first suggesting that I or Asher may have it, somebody actually said to us, said to us, I think you have the boy version of ADHD, Taz, and Asher has the girls' version of ADHD. I got really upset by that. So it's like, hello, don't put us in boxes. Watch it because I I'm somehow somehow a bit more forthright. I have to be the boy. And of course I took that into our took it very, very personally, went into RSD, rejection, sensitivity, dysphoria. Um and that's a whole other aspect of that often impacts ADHD. And started going into that kind of trying to put us into male and female roles, which is as I've said before, it's like trying to ask a pair of chapsticks which is the fork and which is the knife. Of course it wasn't that at all, it was somebody's misunderstanding about inattentive ADHD and hyperactive ADHD. There's this idea that more girls have inattentive and more boys have a hyperactive. It doesn't always work that way. Um anyway, Ashe, back to you now, you've stopped choking. Okay, sorry about that. So we were just saying from your research and talking to my specialist to work with your client, everything you're learning. Where do you currently believe you sit on that spectrum?

SPEAKER_01: 7:21

Aud, I believe. That's I think I'm higher on the autistic side of things than you. Um it just feels right from what I've learnt about it, it feels right. And I think I don't know if we want to talk about various traits around that, but the things that we've noticed is as with everything, most things in life, we tend to be on the opposite side. If we're part of the same coin, but we're on opposite sides of that coin. And so can we give examples as well? Because that's this is where our discussion went, wasn't it? We were talking about everyday things.

SPEAKER_00: 7:54

Although I'm combined, I think I I have more elements toward the hyperactive side and you have more elements towards the inattentive side. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 8:02

Yeah. Who am I? Where am I, and why am I here? Who am I again? Yeah, so I'm oh, you expecting me to say something. I was like, you're gonna say something. You looked at me as if you were gonna say something. Inattentive. I'm not being inattentive. I'm not, I'm just wondering whether I was gonna cough again. I've got a real ticker in my throat. No, I have. Um, yeah, so I think yes, possibly, but but I'm not here to diagnose myself. I'm here to just talk about some of the differences we've noticed um in our rel in our relationship and some of the things that we've had over the years that have made it more challenging for us. Yeah. Now a lot of it makes sense. When what I've learnt from your diagnosis and from what I've read around the topic itself, is that it's no it's no surprise why we've sometimes had misunderstandings and things that have not gone as well for us as they could have done, because we're approaching things so so differently and processing things very differently. So this came out, we thought we'd come up with this episode, didn't we? Because over Christmas, when we were both recovering from the the flu Lurgy and a bit of burnout too, I think. A lot of burnout. A lot of burnout. Um, and from that we were talking about how the things that we've learnt in this short time since you were diagnosed, which is what, just over a year ago, 18 months ago, something like that.

SPEAKER_00: 9:18

I was diagnosed just before my 50th birthday.

SPEAKER_01: 9:20

Yeah. So what are the main things for us? What are the f the top things that we noticed about, what are the obvious things that we notice with our differences and why we've maybe had some misunderstandings in the past?

SPEAKER_00: 9:31

Well, there've been some things, haven't there, where I've deliberately held back from saying something and you've thought it's because I'm not interested.

SPEAKER_02: 9:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 9:40

Or I've spun off at a tangent and you've then gone into RSD because you think I'm not listening to you.

SPEAKER_01: 9:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 9:48

That's been a classic one, hasn't it?

SPEAKER_01: 9:49

Yeah, that's that's like either you don't care or you don't, you know, you don't um you know, you don't notice me, I haven't got anything decent to say, and then I go down the whole kind of I've been down the whole route of self-loathing, self, you know, saying I'm not good enough, I'm not intelligent enough, I'm not all of that negative stuff that, you know, all the rubbish that I can can come up with occasionally if that's when that takes hold. Um and that was one of the the first obvious things, wasn't it? That immediately it's not that you don't care, that you're able to have be doing something on your phone or playing a game on your phone or doing something at the same time as having a conversation with me and still taking that in. Whereas for me, I would find that really challenging to do that.

SPEAKER_00: 10:29

Whereas sometimes I'll need to do something, I call it my my little brain dead activities that are essentially like fidget toys. So if I'm playing one of those mix and match games or something on my phone, it's not because I'm not listening, it's to keep that part of my brain busy to enable me to listen more. So I remember I I wrote a post in on Facebook just before Christmas about this memory that popped up of Mr. Warrior in maths class telling me to stop rocking on my chair and listen. And of course now looking back I can recognise I was rocking on my chair to enable me to listen.

SPEAKER_01: 11:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 11:02

So it's all of those things.

SPEAKER_01: 11:04

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And also I would get frequently on my school reports, you know, um needs to pay more attention, you know, stop looking out the window, you know, or be in a chatterbox in class occasionally. I was either one or the other, I was either really, really, really quiet to the point where I, you know, it's almost like if I could have gone into the wallpaper and just disappeared, I would have done. Or I'd get distracted by something and then get really chatty with somebody else in the class and then get told off by the history teacher for doing that, you know, even though I love the topic that was talking about, but I'd suddenly, you know, lose track of things and and get distracted by something else. So I find school reports are really fast.

SPEAKER_00: 11:44

Sorry, I'm laughing because Tilly's snoring really loudly in the background. Can you hear that, everyone? Hold on.

SPEAKER_01: 11:49

You stop now.

SPEAKER_00: 11:50

Look at that, we've stopped talking.

SPEAKER_01: 11:52

No, she's going again. No. See, we've been distracted again. So sorry, carry on. Are you sure I can tell you? Yes, now I've got R S D because you didn't listen to me and you stopped me after. No, I haven't. I'm just using those exactly. So no. Um, so it's really important, I think, for us to recognise that. And when we started talking about it, then it's suddenly all those things from childhood when we were younger, um, and all those reports, school reports, made sense a bit more.

SPEAKER_02: 12:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 12:21

So um, yeah, it's fascinating. So it's such a learning curve, and I could get really I could really geek out on it all, to be honest. Yeah. But that's again, that's hyper focused, right?

SPEAKER_00: 12:30

Yeah. So Yeah. We used to, before we recognized there was an ADHD thing going on, we used to break ourselves down in terms of the jobs we we used to do and that we felt more at ease with in newspapers. So I was a hard news journalist who occasionally wrote features, and you were much more at ease writing features.

SPEAKER_01: 12:48

Yeah, so I was a really, although I did knew hard uh hard news and I could do it, my love was features, so it was the detail. I was all about the detail, you know, not just the the 500-word um story with a big headline, it was about 2000, 3000, 4,000 word features. Well, I could go into all the detail, and I still love that, and that's I guess that's why I've ended up doing book publishing and and writing and you know particularly human interest for you as well, isn't it? Oh without a doubt, yeah, absolutely. It's about people and that weird mix of loving being with people, but sometimes just needing to take myself away from that and having the space to be on my own, and and that in itself is a massive thing because that makes so much sense of my younger years um and why sometimes things would be too much. Yeah. Um, so it's it's really interesting. Um I find it fascinating as we're learning as we go, and all the things that we're noticing the differences um in our experiences.

SPEAKER_00: 13:49

And that that first started to show up, didn't it, when you would try to explain something to me or something you wanted to do, or somewhere you wanted to go, or something you wanted to do a I don't know, a blog about or something. And in the end, I'd say, Can you just give me the headline?

SPEAKER_01: 14:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 14:02

Because in my head, yeah, I've got my day so crammed and I've got a tiny little bit of time for this, this, this. Just give me the headline so I can process it. Because it's so hard for me to keep track when you're just going on and on and on, and then going over here and over there and over there and over there, and I should get really upset and I'd be going, but I'm trying to work out what it is you want, and I can't work out what it is you want because you're going to rent houses.

SPEAKER_01: 14:26

Yeah, I know, and and again, that's really so whereas me, I might go into that and I'd go into the huge detail, but actually, if from a journey's point of view, we talk about finding the the the intro bit, so the the key part of the story, and my key part of the story would be based right down the bottom of that drop-minute monologue, you know, and you'd be like, There it is, that's what we that's the point you wanted to get across, and that's yeah, and that element too has really been apparent, hasn't it, all the way through our relationship.

SPEAKER_00: 14:53

And eventually we learn to laugh about that when we're just it's just you know news news writer and features writer.

SPEAKER_01: 14:58

Yeah, it's a good way, I think it's a good way of displaying it for us.

SPEAKER_00: 15:01

But then when that made sense for us at least, even if it isn't for you guys. Totally. But then when the ADHD came up, then it made even more sense. Yeah. Even more sense. And conversely, although you like the human interest stuff and I like to go straight in for the kind of the the headline and get the get the news story, get in, get the story, get out again. Next one. Um when it comes to actually conversations with people, yeah, you're kind of the opposite. So I share far more, I'm far comfortable with sharing far more than you are.

SPEAKER_01: 15:34

Yeah. I think yeah, I've really noticed that, and particularly as I've got older. I think actually I'm quite different to the way I was when I was younger. I think as I've I think again, perimenopause, menopause, which I think has brought things to the fore a little bit more. Um yeah, with conversations, I'll give an amount, but I won't give as much as you. I will just take a step back and just be the observer, and I'm quite comfortable with that, and I like to do that, because otherwise, if it gets too intense, it's just a little bit too much. You know, I can turn myself into the Joker, and and I I'll tell you another thing which I think is perfect for my line of work when I was a journalist. Well, always be a journalist, um, and when I do the book mentoring and publishing as well, you know, when I'm networking, is because one of the things I'll do frequently is I will um ask lots of questions of the person I'm chat chatting with, so I'm I'm pushing it back on them, so it's about them. And that's perfect for what I do because obviously bringing out the stories from people and getting them to give of their best with their stories and turning that into books and social content. Um, but also it takes the spotlight off me. So it's another one where I I I'm I've become very good at deflecting and taking it back to the other people, and um not unfortunate. I say this with love because I love our group of people that we know so well, our three-year training group. But what I love about them is they know me really well and they know they spot when I'm trying to do that, and they will very gently work with me to support me with the things that I need to talk talk about, which I'm finding difficult to talk about. So um we're just going wow, again, off topic, um, distraction, but we've just had one of our neighbour's horses go past the window, and normally our um cockpoo would go absolutely ballistic and he didn't. So he must know we're on a podcast. Thank you, Bowley. Um we just interrupted it anyway.

SPEAKER_00: 17:25

Yeah, I know. It flips back the other way again though, doesn't it, when it comes to small talk. Yeah. So one of the things that in the early days used to amaze me about Asher is let's say we're in the supermarket, yeah, and she'd make conversation with the person at the checkout and be wittering away, and then I could sense people behind her in the queue getting annoyed because it was taking too long. And I'd be like, How have you got all that information out of the person at the checkout? I'm just smile, thank you, you had a good day, give me the bags. Yeah, and I know their life story generally. So Asher is brilliant at small talk.

SPEAKER_01: 17:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 17:58

I have have always struggled with small talk, I just can't do it.

SPEAKER_01: 18:01

Well, that's why they used to send me out on the Vox Pops for work. Yeah. You know, when you go out and get a comment on uh uh an issue of the day for newspapers and they take a picture of somebody and a quote from them. Just go and find somebody in the street and say, Yeah, I just get a random person and go, yeah, and ask them a question and then let them, you know, and keep prodding a little bit and get the best out of them. Not physically, obviously.

SPEAKER_00: 18:19

In the same way that if we uh if we have to go to a social gav gathering, you will be quite at ease going around and networking and chatting to people. And I'll be the one clinging to your coattails. If if it was something like something like a summer barbecue, I'll be the one hiding in the kitchen going, can we go yet? Can we go yet? Can we go yet?

SPEAKER_01: 18:35

Yeah, but I will have a limit. So I'm aware of that now. We were talking about this over Christmas, weren't we? Is that now I will I can do that for so long and it's almost like it becomes too much, so suddenly everything seems a bit too much, and it depends on the setup in the environment. So for instance, quite recently we went to an event, lovely, lovely evening event, um, supporting one of uh our colleagues and clients, which was wonderful. Um, but the noise levels were quite high, and when I walked in, it was like a sea of noise, and it I found it really disconcerting, I found it really, really difficult. Um, and then I had somebody come up to me that I didn't know that obviously knew who I was, was being perfectly lovely, but it's about that physical space that you know when somebody kind of it felt like I had like my boundaries were being challenged, and I found that quite hard, and it was a lovely evening, but the next day I was absolutely shattered. So I'm very good at I suppose masking, which is what we talk about, don't we? Um, and women are known to be, I believe, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 19:37

And it's why so many women aren't diagnosed until later, particularly when they hit perimenopause and all these symptoms appear.

SPEAKER_01: 19:43

Yeah, so I must like mad with that and had a lovely evening, but the fallout from that was I needed to come down from that afterwards. I'm realising that now as I look at how I'm working this year, and again, we've talked about some of the working practices and the changes I'm making for 2026, is around this. Because I'm recognising now and noting more of the signs that my body is telling me that it needs a break, it needs space, it needs a different environment. Um, and so it's yeah, it is so I can be really conversational, all the small talk, I love it. I was brought up with a mum and dad that were they're absolute brilliant, they were both brilliant. They were fantastic at that. You know, remember I was brought up in a situation where you know we were in a church-based community, so we had lots of events at the church and church hall, and my favourite bit was always the church hall afterwards, not service, sorry.

SPEAKER_00: 20:35

Because we had a retail business running at the same time when I was a kid, and I would happily go in and serve a customer. But it's transactional again.

SPEAKER_01: 20:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 20:45

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 20:46

What is it you want? How much?

SPEAKER_00: 20:50

I talk about that a lot. I'm okay going to an event. If I have a purpose, if I'm going to an event because I'm the speaker, for instance, I'm fine because I know why I'm why I'm there. I'm quite happy that people might come up and talk to me, but I don't have to go and chip into a wall of shoulders or anything. I have a purpose for being there. And I've got the opposite.

SPEAKER_01: 21:07

I've just had this realisation, see anybody, if this makes any sense to anybody else, where it's just my my interesting brain. Um, but I've actually got the opposite thing with that sometimes, not always, but sometimes I will think if I've got a sense I've got to have I've got a purpose, I've got a reason for being there, I can almost talk myself out of that and feel a bit like I always I jokingly refer to it as my performance anxiety for nah for now. But because I feel I'm I've putting myself under ridiculous amounts of pressure to perform, yeah, and then it becomes too much, and then I feel like I'm hitting overwhelm. I'm in danger of hitting that overwhelm stage. So again, we've got we've got opposite sides of things, you know.

SPEAKER_00: 21:47

Whereas me, what drives me is it's not a an ego, I'm gonna get on the stage thing. It's an I have some information that I know I can help all these people with, and that's what I'm here to do. That kind of purpose. Yeah. So it's it's it's opposites.

SPEAKER_01: 22:02

That's what I said.

SPEAKER_00: 22:02

Yeah, f free networking. The free networking bit at the part of um real life networking where more of it was in the room.

SPEAKER_02: 22:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 22:10

I would hate that bit. I'd be the person looking at the messages on their phone and pretending to be de terribly busy on my phone until we could just sit down and do that bit.

SPEAKER_01: 22:18

And you'd be the one, you know, bobbing round everybody and saying hello and Sometimes though, I think I can be almost too much with that, so I can go in. So I had that happen only this last this last week we were at something, I won't say what it was, because it will be I was at the I was at something this week and we had a break in the proceedings or whatever, and then there was somebody that was new there that hadn't been to it before, and I kind of saw her, she was standing quite close to me, so I went up and had a chat, but she was already having a chat with somebody else that was a regular to this event. Um, and I think I kind of muscled in a bit um in my you know excitement to try and get involved and help her a bit, you know, and I can do that as well. That's I had the opposite to that. Right, good on what a surprise, eh?

SPEAKER_00: 23:04

I was sitting standing chatting to a couple of the new people because again, that's somewhere we go to regularly, so I had a purpose, so that felt okay. Yeah. So I was welcoming in new people, but then another person who'd been there for a while came up to to chat with what had become now a foursome, and I had no idea how to bring them into the conversation. I was really floundering and just kind of occasionally saying something, then looking to them to see if they wanted to inter interject.

SPEAKER_01: 23:31

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00: 23:32

And I felt really, oh my goodness, am I being rude? I don't know how to do it.

SPEAKER_01: 23:35

And then fascinating, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00: 23:38

And it doesn't matter how much practically, I know I can just talk about the weather if I need to, or ask a question and but no, opposites again. Yeah. So again, ADHD is not necessarily always going to be the same as ADHD. So ADHD is not ADHD. So um space and confinement.

SPEAKER_01: 23:56

Yeah, that's something else we've talked about is um if I'm feeling stressed, I want I feel like I need I need space, I need open space. Rather, sometimes for me, an idea would be in a great big we used to do um a 13 month spiritual empowerment programme. The big one. Yeah, somewhere different to where we are now, and that's still beautiful, and you still got the lovely space there, but there was something about the earlier venue that we had, and it was just literally a big field with kind of nothing in it apart from the the um The training. The training centre, which was quite small. And it was just this and I mean just wanted to, you know, I felt like I wanted to run, not that I'd do that, I'm not athlet that athletic. But the the smaller, slimmer, more the fitter per me version of me would be doing that. We'll get there then, but we will. But I wanted to that sense of freedom and that kind of that feeling was really important to me. And sometimes if I feel hemmed in, I'm not great. I can you know I've had I've not had panic attacks as such, but I've been very close to that with things like lifts and things like you know, in small confined spaces, and sometimes I really struggle with that. Whereas you I'm the opposite.

SPEAKER_00: 25:03

If I'm feeling stressed or anxious, I want, you know, to be in a in a smaller space that kind of supports me in fetal position.

SPEAKER_01: 25:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 25:10

So if anybody's seen the movie about um Temple Brennan. Oh yes, yeah with the the whole thing with the cattle crush, yeah, that that would be me. I'm I'm the one hiding under a duvet, I'm the one under a weighted blanket, and in the smallest space I can get into, and then I feel so not to the point where my arms and legs can't move. I know some people have shown me these stretchy tube things that have started to sell that you can get into like a clingy sleeping bag. Yeah. I think I'd panic in that if I couldn't move my arms and legs.

SPEAKER_02: 25:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 25:39

But I'd be much happier in a smaller space. Yeah. So if we're looking at that in terms of a house, for instance, I'd feel safe sitting in the toilet or the broom club cupboard, whereas you'd want the garden or at least a big room.

SPEAKER_01: 25:52

Yeah, but sometimes I can be that though. I was thinking that there's some things that I would be like that. Depends on where I am on that scale, I think. So for instance, sometimes I have you know, so when I've been at business events, I've been known, we all do that, right? We go off and and do um and do things to get away from the crowd if you like. Yeah. But sometimes just going in and just going into the ladies, escaping into there, not for a conversation and a catch-up with somebody, just to h literally hide in the cubicle, which I think we can all do, but that's that's sometimes that space, that private space is needed.

SPEAKER_00: 26:26

I remember pre-diagnosis some years back, going through a really rough time, and we were out for the day in Oxford, yeah, I believe, and I was on the edge of a panic attack or very, very close to tears for whatever had triggered it. And I remember going into what would have been Waterstones and finding a corner in the bookshelf in the between the bookshelves and s and just sitting in a corner in the darkest corner I could find in the bookshop, because it was the safest space I could find. If we go and sit in a restaurant somewhere or a cafe, or a coffee shop, you'll just want to find somewhere with loads of space where you can see everything and move about. I always want to go and find the seat at the back with my back at the wall, yeah, where I can see everybody coming in and feel safe.

SPEAKER_01: 27:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 27:17

Yeah, the old warrior's seat.

SPEAKER_01: 27:20

I think we're both agreed though, aren't we, on um don't know anybody else about this, but if you go into a restaurant and they've got the old speakers, you don't want to sit near the speakers.

SPEAKER_00: 27:27

I think that's the same for everybody, but again, if you're having quite a noise-sensitive day, then um I think that's another thing that's been quite a revelation for me is recognising that if you have something like ADHD, it's not just a baseline that sits there all the all the time, it has peaks and droughs according to what's going on with you hormonally, what's going on in your external circumstances, what's what what phase of the moon is in, all kinds of things can pile in. And sometimes you can have good days and bad days. I never thought that was a thing. And I now recognise that one of the signs that I might have a slightly more challenging day with it, or sometimes a really challenging day, is if I wake up and I can hear the electric.

SPEAKER_02: 28:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 28:09

I get far, far more sound sensitive and a bit more light sensitive when my ADHD symptoms are more closer to the surface rather than more prevalent would be better.

SPEAKER_02: 28:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 28:23

So it's really fascinating. What are the signs for you if you know you're gonna have a a if if you know your ADHD is quite high that day?

SPEAKER_01: 28:30

I don't actually know. I'm just trying to think. What would you? Because you you see it every day, so what would you say for me?

SPEAKER_00: 28:36

Um you usually start in you start to go into a spiral where you start to hyperfocus on disasters and bad news.

SPEAKER_01: 28:44

That's true, yeah. Doom scrolling. That's that's a bit more. Yes, but again, it's doom scrolling doom scrolling with detail. I want the detail. It's not just a skim over the top of it, I want the detail of it.

SPEAKER_00: 28:56

But my doom scrolling is, you know, oh look, there's a flying squirrel. Oh look, let's look at Mr. Lovely. Here's the mouse in the background.

SPEAKER_01: 29:03

Well that's one of the reasons we've actually with my um with TikTok account, we keep r regularly Taz will go in and de doom it, won't you?

SPEAKER_00: 29:10

Because Ash will go into, you know, oh let me see if I can find the remains of the Titan Titanic and stories of people who died there, or I don't know, something about Hillsborough, or you could ask Ash the details of any of the big disasters or school shootings or anything like that, or some of the god awful stuff that's been happening with ice recently. And Ash will know most of the details because she'll have gone right into it, whereas I will kind of observe that and I think that's awful, but I can't impact that, and it's only going to negatively impact me so when I let it go.

SPEAKER_01: 29:39

And I know that as well, and I know it's not good for my mental health at all. But that is one of the sponsors that you're going into a dip, isn't it? So if I've got it, I've got to be very aware of the fact that I'm going down that route, and then I'll say to Taz, dedoom me, please. I quite like that way of saying it because it kind of it it takes action or de-doom myself by the first thing is putting my phone down and not sitting there for hours.

SPEAKER_00: 30:00

The step before that is she focuses and really, really hyper focuses on the England football lionesses.

SPEAKER_01: 30:06

Yeah, but I've done this on most of these podcasts, so that means I must be doing it all the time.

SPEAKER_00: 30:10

That's the step before.

SPEAKER_01: 30:11

When you start to when you need to lose yourself in something. Oh no, it is, it's my that's my safe space. I know some some ADHDs talk about um watching the same movie over and over. They got you've got particular movies or series that you watch. For me, at the moment, it's anything to do with the lionesses. So I might rewatch At the moment for the last X amount of years. Well, last three or four years, I suppose. But um yeah, so I'll look at things like that. I'll replay the you know, all the clips from the last two Euros.

SPEAKER_00: 30:39

How many times have have you got any idea of how many times you've watched that Chloe Kelly goal?

SPEAKER_01: 30:44

Which one? There's so many. The swinging the top round her head afterwards. Oh, you mean from the first Euros? Um That goal. Oh god, loads of times. Also the the Tooney one when she could they put it over the top so that she can you know uh and the that's in the first Euros. Yeah, loads, and then all the penalties of course. Yeah, that was the sweet.

SPEAKER_00: 31:04

I bet you've watched that particularly that Chloe Kelly kick hundreds of times.

SPEAKER_01: 31:08

Probably yeah, probably. Um and anything like that, any interviews with any of the team, you know, anything like that, I'll go and watch and whereas for me if I get to that level of leading escapism, it's reruns of Buffy, Xena, or something MCU, Marvel. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 31:24

Usually.

SPEAKER_01: 31:25

Yeah. Interesting stuff.

SPEAKER_00: 31:27

Or I'll lose myself in fanfic.

SPEAKER_01: 31:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 31:29

Very little stuff.

SPEAKER_01: 31:31

So what okay, we've talked about all this stuff around, not negative, but all some of the challenges. What about the things that we do to help us through these months? So for me, one of the things that helps ground me, I do my word searches.

SPEAKER_02: 31:42

Yep.

SPEAKER_01: 31:42

So Taz bought me just before I think it was October, it was around, yeah, it was around Halloween time, wasn't it? We were out and about in one of these garden centres, and I don't know if you think you can get all the little books, the the books you get in there, get mini bookstores, don't you, in a lot of the garden centres. And they had a word search one, which was really nice one, like a pocket-sized one. It's got 200 here's me with the numbers, 216 word searches in it. And today I had to do the last one because I'm halfway through now, I've done 108, and I had to finish on 108. This is another one of the things that actually is.

SPEAKER_00: 32:13

I'm not sure if this is slightly more on the autistic side. Your numbers thing. Yeah. Whereas I said to her, okay, I just want off a cuff. How much is that per word search then? And within a second she'd she'd worked it out in her head that it was about four people word search. Or whatever it was, I don't know. I don't know if it was that. Anyway, I can't remember. But whatever it was. You spot patterns and you work out numbers. If we go into a room at an event, you've automatically calculated how many chairs are in the room and how many people are there.

SPEAKER_01: 32:37

I just thought everybody did that. No. I don't do it all the time, but sometimes I do it. And I it's I'm looking for patterns all the time. Yeah. Um, and it's why I s a certain types of art I love that's kind of symmetrical and it's and it's it just gives me comfort and joy, you know. So I yeah. Um, so where do we go? We were talking about numbers and stuff, yeah. So yeah, I'm not I mean I hated that's the irony, I hated math at school, just didn't get on with maths, even with extra tuition. Yeah. I was not good at it at all. But give me mental arithmetic, then I'm I'm pretty good.

SPEAKER_00: 33:10

It's also little quirky things we've worked out as well, with you know, whether people if you hear a word, for instance, yeah what happens in your head when you hear a word?

SPEAKER_01: 33:23

I'm usually either spelling it out or getting a sense of the energy of it, that sounds really weird. But it's why, what about you? I literally see the word. Okay. I see the word.

SPEAKER_00: 33:40

I see the word written out first and then sound as well, how it sounds. And then we'll go to um how it looks. So if somebody said, I don't know, tree, I now have tree on a black background in white text in something that looks like uh uh aerial curved font. There's a blue kind of flicker going across it. Um see I see all the letters, the outlines perfectly, and then I'll go, oh, different types of tree, and now I'm seeing an oak tree in a field.

SPEAKER_01: 34:08

That's interesting. So when you said it that time, I immediately went to a tree and I could see it. I was trying to identify, I didn't know what sort of tree it was, but it was tall and slim. I think it might have been a beach. Yeah. And then I went from that to the one that's in our back garden, which is uh a Jinko beloba. Mon wonderful tree that just appeared. Didn't it be a few years? As if by magic. Um so that's where I go with it. And then but it's the sounds of words. A lot of that, so I'll ri very often I spend a lot of my time reading out loud, and I get my clients to read out loud a lot too, because to get the flow and the energy and the rhythm of their writing to familiarise themselves with it, so that when they're getting into a state of can't you know, regularly writing, they can spot if they're in the right zone for their writing. Does that make sense? Totally. So so for me, a sound with the word is so important. So very often I might spot a typo or a punctuation mistake by reading it aloud because I can hear the rhythm in the reading and I know where it's needed, so I can pace it.

SPEAKER_00: 35:10

Does that make sense? And you're actually a much better proofreader than me as well, which is gone while you're doing your job. So one of our our clients the other a few nights back said, if I paid you, would you and Asher be able to proofread this? It's a it's a piece of learning material they're creating. Yeah. And I went, Oh, for goodness sake, don't bloody hell, don't get me to proof it. I'm crap at proofing, get Asher to proof it, she's brilliant.

SPEAKER_01: 35:31

Yeah, I but I really enjoyed that, and that's my that's my detail and my comfort zone and my joy zone because I I mean I love all my work and all the stuff around books anyway, but that and my one-to-one with my clients is are my favourite things because it's like A, we can go into great detail, which I love. I'm doing the whole David Bellamy through the detail. Yeah, do you know what I mean? Like that. I'm doing all the gesticulations with it. I get really passionate about it. Um and B, it it calms me, it regulates me, too.

SPEAKER_00: 36:04

I'm thinking back to when we were both sub-editors at the same place, and thank goodness we had a process where when we what would happen is a sub editor would design the page, then print the page out, and then the pages that were printed out would go into a tray, and all the other subs would when they've got a downtime between pages, go and pick up a pa a page, proof it once, do the red pen on it, then put it back into another pro tray for a second proof, and you couldn't proof the same page twice.

SPEAKER_01: 36:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 36:29

And I was always really glad that there was a second and third proof process because I knew that I can give it a quick scan and spot that, that, and that. But there's certain things I won't spot because my brain tells it, reads it, skips ahead, yeah, and reads it as it should be.

SPEAKER_01: 36:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 36:44

Whereas you are really, really good at seeing the words as the actual.

SPEAKER_01: 36:48

But again, how I need to work with that is because of that inattentiveness, there is a cut-off point when I know that I need to stop and take a break. So therefore, and we talked about that in another podcast too. For me, the golden rule is two hour, ninety minutes, ninety minutes thing for me, then take a break. Do something different just for five, ten minutes, come back to it fresh, take a walk outside, whatever it is, just to get your brain out of that zone into a more uh a different zone for a few minutes, and you can come back with fresh eyes. Yeah. And that's that to me is absolutely really vital.

SPEAKER_00: 37:20

If I don't do that, then I notice a huge difference. So just out of interest then, if somebody says a word and I see it, and then you get the sounds and picture the thing, if you're reading words, what's going on in your head then?

SPEAKER_01: 37:32

Silence like that, don't say Um, what's going on if I'm reading them?

SPEAKER_00: 37:38

So if I'm reading a book, for instance, or a piece of fiction, whatever it is. I'm hearing it. I'm seeing it. I'm hearing it. Which is why it ruins it so often for me if I've read an amazing book and then I go and see the film. And it's up, but the characters don't look like that.

SPEAKER_01: 37:51

So at the moment, Taz bought me, didn't you, a book which is quite hard to get hold of, which is um American published and written, a book about Robin Hood. Now, when I was a kid talking about hyperfocus, I hyper-focused on my hero who was Robin Hood, you know, feeding the rich to uh give to the poor, fabulous up the words. Feeding the rich to give to the poor. I feed in the poor oh, I've done it the wrong way around. Oh no stealing from the rich to give to the poor. See, this is what happened in the center. Um, but so that story for me was huge in my childhood. Everything to do with Robin Hood I loved, and so when we were talking about um books, I was I've just started reading this book, Taza's book for me, but it's um you can't get hold of many copies, and it's because Robin is Robin with a Y and it's a woman, and it's kind of F2F. Is it F2F? Is that the right?

SPEAKER_00: 38:40

F F FF fiction. Um Robin's Hood gets a lot of use.

SPEAKER_01: 38:44

Yes. And I'm just reading it, and I'm I was only on page 17 and Robin's Hood was what what that wasn't Robin'cause Will Will A Scarlet, wasn't it? Yes. So all the all the merry men are now the merry women.

SPEAKER_00: 38:54

It's interesting, but but what ruined it for you at first?

SPEAKER_01: 38:57

The point the point of it was that if one word, because I hear words, the first word, what was the word? Can you remember? God damn it. Somebody put in there it was the Sheriff of Nottingham saying, God damn it. And all I heard was an American voice going, God damn it. I'm like, the Sheriff of Nottingham, he would not say, God damn it. And that I had to kind of come away for it for a while. I was reading just before I went to sleep the other night, and I said to Taz, I can't read another chapter because I've just got, you know, like with um Kevin Costner's Robin Hood movie.

SPEAKER_00: 39:27

I always remember one of my old journalism colleagues, Natalie Messenden, hello if you're listening, who always used to go on about that movie with him saying, Let's go to Nottingham.

SPEAKER_01: 39:35

Yeah, it's not Nottingham, it's Nottingham. Anyway, so it's not Alexander. Yeah you can't have Alexander with an Irish accent. No, Alexander the Yeah, exactly. So so all of that going on. So because I work with sound, that for a while, I had to take a break from it. So when we're read from when I'm reading books, I've realised that I'm picturing based on the sound and the sound quality as I'm reading it. So what it sounds like as I'm reading it. silently in my head and why I quite like reading out loud you know myself sometimes because it brings something else to it.

SPEAKER_00: 40:06

Yeah whereas again I'm seeing the pictures very very it's also why I cannot read a book. Well of course I can practically read the book but it I struggle to stay focused with the book if it's overly descriptive. Because by the time they get to the James stylie yeah or if most people struggle with that to be honest with you. Gene or the Clan of the cave bear.

SPEAKER_01: 40:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 40:25

That topic fascinates me. I'd love to be able to read her books but by the time she starts describing things in detail I've already seen them looking very different and it ruins it. It distracts me too much.

SPEAKER_01: 40:34

Well whereas I quite like that and that's why Because I see it in pictures and you hear it I'm just trying to think of another example. So is Sarah Water stuff that's quite I mean obviously it's quite a particular genre with her historical fiction but hers is quite detailed as well and I like that too there's a lot of you know there's a lot of speech in it too but it's but it's it's there's a lot of detail for the history for the time of that they're setting and I like that because that helps me set the scene and the detail of but there comes a limit and that's what I was saying about I was using Henry James tongue in cheek but because that is so detailed and it'll take like two pages to describe a a door you know and by the time you're done okay I've yeah I've got that picture now can I move on? Lust is more just tell me the door and let me see the door in my own way. Yeah but again the pace you see is slower isn't it? So again that's something different and also that's the other thing about as I've noticed as well is that you are very much you'll either be really like you know on the same wavelength with me in terms of speed walking around and stuff or I will literally turn around and you will just disappear at a rate of knots and I'm still talking about something that we were talking about ten minutes ago and still thinking about it and Taza's gone off and I don't know gone off to another part of the superstore that we're in or something or the supermarket and I'm like where's she gone? I was still talking about that I'm still thinking about that I wanted to ask her a question and she's gone and again there was that difference wasn't it we noticed that too so we joke about that because thank God you've got pink hair but now it's not so bright you know and there's more people with pink hair I mean it has been known that I've nearly accosted a few people that weren't my wife but you know just watch how you accost them I know so yeah anything else we need to bring in on this I think we've rabbited a bit haven't we I think we have to I hope it I hope it's useful because for me this whole experience of learning more about ADHD and um us as a couple how it's really helping us get to know ourselves again. I think in many ways learn things about ourselves that we didn't really appreciate before.

SPEAKER_00: 42:28

I think the biggest piece of advice I could give to you if you are living with or you know with or you're in a relationship with somebody who is neurodivergent you need to get fascinated. Instead of getting irritated if something comes up and you don't understand it what's worked for us really really well is pausing and going hold on hold on I can feel this getting it's getting a little bit tense. Just explain to me what you thought I meant when I said blah or tell me what goes through your head when this happens it's one of the reasons I've I've partially written a a book for couples at the moment with questions to get them to do just that with one another to get to know each other at a deeper level because through that rather than us getting upset with each other we've been able to say well I go to this place my brain goes here then here then here then here trying to think of an example. Yeah I know I am as well so let's say that Ash is chatting about something and then a thought comes in for me that's quite random and I'll just chuck it in because otherwise it's gonna go or because I don't get time to process it just comes in and out.

SPEAKER_01: 43:27

Yeah we had that yesterday when I was I can't even remember what it was about now so it's but at the time it was quite a big realisation for me and you then suddenly had something come in didn't you for work or something. I don't know I must be able to get some bread or something or whatever it was and it was like and there's me with the you know trying to thinking oh RSD I'm getting in the right state because you're not listening you're not listening again.

SPEAKER_00: 43:47

Yeah from where there would have been a time when I would have gone but because we can say tell me what happened then in inside your your mind, your emotions explain to me you would be able to say all that stuff she doesn't care about me she's not paying attention and if we can then say so can I explain what was going on for me I was absolutely paying attention and then a thought came in from over there knocked me off topic and just came straight through it didn't mean I wasn't listening. Yeah it just meant it's just ADHD this thought comes in and out and sometimes when I'm at home and I'm with you because I feel absolutely safe I unmask more and I don't regulate it as much as I would normally so in the same way that Ash will start talking about talking to me about something 17 different tangents can you just come back to the first thing you asked me and she'll go what was it? I don't know which tangent was that was that number 23 or so yeah if you start to feel that you're getting upset with one another or or triggered or irrit irritable pause and go into the place of fascination. I wonder why that happened tell me what's going on look I you know look at the mechanism yeah really really important.

SPEAKER_01: 44:55

Yeah treat your treat your brain treat the brain like it's a like it's the back of an old clockwork watch and you're looking at where the cogs are asked yeah stay curious that's really important I think that is because once you get into that I could and again that appeals to her doesn't it our you actually sort of hydrophobics I could get really geeky about that and we're like oh did you know about that wow that's amazing that's incredible and then we can go right so when I when my brain does this your brain does that which is what causes the clash so if we're more aware of that what do we do to stop that clash yeah and nine times out of ten it's just having that awareness. Yeah so instead of getting upset we can just laugh go hold on a minute rewind yeah we do whichever way around I don't get it wrong you know we're still learning as we go and there aren't there are certainly times still when I know when I can still fall back into old habits with that. It's a you know it's a gradual process but we are getting a lot better and I think so I'm really pleased that we're able to discuss it in this way now that we wouldn't have even thought about two or three years ago.

SPEAKER_00: 45:51

I don't expect it to make sense because a lot of the time it doesn't you know we could go into the science of this we could talk talk to you all to you all about the different chemicals in the b brain and the very real medically proven differences between a a neurotypical I nearly said heteronormative brain between a neurotypical brain and an ADHD brain but what's really important is how we react to one another and how we listen and understand one another. So if you are with someone who is somewhere on that spectrum please don't get annoyed it might not make sense to your brain but if you just even if you think you've read all the books and watched all the videos just sit down with them and say explain to me what's going on when this happened because I've been finding it quite difficult to deal with this and if we can work on if we can understand why I'm going over there and you're going over there she says wildly gesticulating if they can't see me. It's your turn I did it earlier um we might just understand one another better and be able to stop avoid getting triggered and instead just be able to go hold on have that level of understanding definitely yeah good chat Tavs thank you ready for a cup of tea I think I am too so I hope that's been useful if you have any other issues you'd love us to discuss around this please please please let us know. An interesting fact I've realised since being diagnosed that most of my clients and friendship group are also on that spectrum. Oh what a surprise life attracts life and so many people I'm already working with and already knew have been diagnosed since it's like yeah and bless every now and then one that's really obvious thinks they're neurotypical not heteronormative and I'm like oh bless you life is one wonderful healing journey.

SPEAKER_01: 47:43

So there you go it really is ADHD it's not ADHD I said the J word with love then journey. Yeah I did so it felt right I hope you've enjoyed this session come let us know what you think this podcast um if you've got any questions get in touch and we will see you again we will see you see you next Tuesday buggered that up let's try that again and let's try it again ready and see you right hang on a minute so until next time we will see you next Tuesday you've been listening to Awesomely off topic with Taz Thornton and Asha Clearwater.

SPEAKER_00: 48:20

Follow or subscribe so you don't miss whatever wild tangent we wander down next. If you want to find us you can we're very Googleable catch you soon