🎙️ S2 Episode 5: Why Being Good At What You Do Isn’t Enough Anymore

Some people are brilliant at what they do - yet still get overlooked, underpaid, underbooked or stuck wondering why things are not moving.

In this week’s episode, Taz and Asha unpack the uncomfortable truth that talent alone is rarely the full answer. Being good matters, of course, but visibility, relationships, consistency, confidence, timing, courage and how you show up in the world all play a part too.

Expect honest chat, practical truths, a few laughs, some gloriously off-topic detours involving recycling and apple turnovers, and plenty to think about if you know you have more to give but are not seeing the results yet.

If you have ever thought, “But I’m really good at what I do… so why is this so hard?” - this one is for you.

Follow Awesomely Off-Topic so you never miss an episode, and come say hello on socials.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

This is Awesomely Off Topic where we talk books, brands, business and everything else we're not supposed to say out loud.

SPEAKER_01 0:08

I'm Ashra and Tad, let's dive in. Welcome to another episode of Awesomely Off Topic, and today we're talking about why being good at what you do isn't enough anymore. I mean we were brought up, Ash, weren't we, to believe that if you work hard and you get good at what you do, the world kind of notices, except sometimes it doesn't.

SPEAKER_03 0:30

Exactly, and it's that whole kind of just keep your head down and let your work speak for yourself and you'll it'll be absolutely fine. And it's not always working out like that.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

No, and I'm guessing some of the things in today's episode might sting a little bit because I think a lot of us really did have that work ethic drilled into us. Keep going, work hard, get really good at what you do, go and do all the training that you need. Start at the bottom and work your way up to the top, keep your nose clean, do a cracking job, all of that. But the world doesn't always notice, it just doesn't. Doesn't matter how much we believe it's going to, it takes more than that now.

SPEAKER_03 1:10

It does, and you know, you can be working beautifully, your work can be speaking beautifully, but nobody's nobody's listening, really, are they?

SPEAKER_01 1:16

That's horrible. It can sound like you're shouting into a void, can't you? It really can sound like you're shouting into a void. And that sounds really harsh, but it's true.

SPEAKER_03 1:24

It's because we've been there though, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 1:26

We've both been there to know what that feels like. Totally. There are bloody awesome people everywhere, talented people, kind people, smart people, experienced people. That sounds a bit like that testimonial Stephen Fry did for us, but that's another story for another day.

SPEAKER_03 1:43

I think we've actually talked about that, haven't we, on a previous podcast, I believe. It'll be in there anyway, it'll be in there somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

The point is, there are all these brilliant people kind of quietly getting on with uh with their work, keeping their head down, but being overlooked completely while somebody with half of their skill and twice the swagger, I guess. Big white teeth is out there hoovering off all their opportunities.

SPEAKER_03 2:13

Yeah, I've definitely seen that. I've seen it throughout business my business life, which is more than what, 20 years self-employed now. Yeah. Um at events, publishing, and it's always sometimes it's the loudest person gets mistaken for the kind of the best person.

SPEAKER_00 2:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:28

Did you just say 20 years? Well, a bit more than that, maybe. Maybe, maybe a little bit. I don't know, is it? Yeah, it must be. Okay, yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_01 2:39

And it it's not just the the loudest person getting mistaken for the best person, is it? Sometimes it's that the best people are kind of how would you say, hiding in plain sight, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 2:51

Yeah, I think I also think it's about I mean, I certainly was brought up that way. It's almost like you've been taught that promoting yourself is being really kind of pushy and arrogant and about tension seeking and all of that rubbish. Self-praise is no praise. Exactly that. I was definitely brought up with that. You shouldn't be, you know, blowing your own trumpet, basically.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

Yeah, load of old nonsense, really, that though. As particularly, particularly women, yeah. Particularly women, particularly late diagnosed ADHD people, yeah. Neurodivergent people. Yeah. People from backgrounds, again, as you just said, where we were taught not to get above ourselves.

SPEAKER_03 3:31

Exactly that. We were absolutely that was the way you just, you know, you just get on with your work, keep your head down, get on with your work, and don't keep don't brag, you can't brag. And also, of course, there's also people like me a bit, I guess, that I really enjoy promoting other people, but I'm not always so good at promoting myself. Maybe that's yeah, I'll confess to that one. It's come up quite a few times, doesn't it, in these podcasts? But it's just I feel really good promoting other people, but for me, it's like I don't want to come across as too arrogant or loud or you just go all mysteriously quiet when it comes to your own stuff. Yeah, which is I know, I know that's the wrong thing to do. But we used to run a PR company, a marketing company, we've both been journalists and we've been on both sides of that fence. But I wonder how many people that are in that line of work, if they were truly honest with themselves, resonate with what I've just said. There's that, you know, because we've always done it, it doesn't make it right, but if you've always got used to promoting other people, yeah, and promoting yourself suddenly feels a bit icky, or you just or it comes last down the list because you're too busy promoting everybody else.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

A lot of people really do get the ick promoting themselves in the same way that so many people who usually sole traders, so one man buttons or one woman buttons get the ick over thinking they've got to sell. Yeah. And again, that's another episode for another day, but it's so so important. Anyway, so that's why today we're unpacking all of this stuff today. We're going to be looking at the difference between being good and being seen, because they are not always the same thing. In fact, I would say rarely today are they're the same thing.

SPEAKER_03 5:03

And before you panic, this is not us saying you need to become one of those unbearable look at me with my ring light on and doing all the right things for my promotion of my business. Look at me, aren't I? You're just chilling out in Dubai. Oh, oh wow, yeah, all of that. No, we're not doing that.

SPEAKER_01 5:18

It's not about well, you and I certainly won't be chilling out in Dubai.

SPEAKER_03 5:21

No, well no, exactly. Let's not even go along with that.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

But we're a bit illegal.

SPEAKER_03 5:25

Yeah, anyway.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

So is there a middle ground? I think there is. I think that you can absolutely be visible without becoming a complete knob. So let's talk about why talent alone often gets left on the shelf, yeah, and what to do about it. So come on then, start us off. What are we gonna start with? I think we need to look at why visibility is so important now and what that means. Yeah, we've got to remember talent is lovely, yeah, talent is desirable, it's useful, talent can absolutely open doors, but talent can sit there going unnoticed while somebody with out anywhere near as as large a skill set can can go off and walk out off with the contract because they're being seen more. So the visibility thing is massive. I talk about this a lot. I work a lot with my clients when I'm coaching them on visibility and personal brand. People need to know you exist. It doesn't matter if you are being brilliant in I don't know, in a silo. You can you need to let people know who you are, what you know, what you can do. You can be absolutely extraordinary. But if nobody knows your name, nobody sees your work, nobody hears your voice, nobody understands what you do, all those opportunities are just gonna zoom past you.

SPEAKER_03 6:59

So it's not it's not being braggy then to do that.

SPEAKER_01 7:02

No, not so. No, it's not even about it's not about being famous or showing off, yeah. It's just about being findable. Think about it. We we frequently sign off these episodes by saying we're very googlable or you can find us online. Yeah. If we weren't signposting people to go and find awesome off topic on Instagram and on Facebook, would people be looking for awesome off topic? If we weren't all the time reminding people that I'm Taz Thornton and you are Azure Clearwater. Again, people wouldn't be finding us from this.

SPEAKER_02 7:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

So you you've got to show up. You can't just sit there and and hope things are gonna fall onto you into your life. You know, a few years back I remember going through a spate of really trying to drill this message home to people who who saw themselves as kind of being spiritual. I'll I'll put me in that account and put you in that account. Yeah, absolutely. But so many people who whose spirituality weaves into their business were for a while anti-marketing themselves. No, no, I'm I actually remember a course leader saying that they were just going to sit and call people in through the candle. That's fine, but all the time you're talking into the candle flame and and you know trying to manifest and call in your dream clients, there's somebody else who is nowhere near as good as you or even as ethical as you potentially, who are showing up on Facebook and Insta Insta and LinkedIn and TikTok and Threads and YouTube and on has an email list. They are everywhere.

SPEAKER_03 8:37

So whatever you're you're not doing, they're doing in abundance. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:41

Yeah. So that yeah, don't care how spiritual you are, you still need to market yourself. You still need to be a bit and it doesn't matter what line of work, people need to know that you exist. You know, I've been I've been coaching a really brilliant person today, absolutely top of their field, absolutely shit hot at everything they do. Yeah, and the big thing we're working on at the minute is personal brand, personal brand, personal brand. You've got to show the world who you are. You've got to.

SPEAKER_03 9:12

This is making me squirm a bit, you know, because I know I'm guilty of not doing that. I'm just thinking about if anybody's listening, if this is you, you know, what advice would you give with that? If you're feeling like that now, Taz listening to this, what would you say to people about you know, where do they start with the visibility? I can't even say it, visibility. Visibility, it's late at night, guys.

SPEAKER_01 9:31

I'm kind of at the risk of being a bit of a cliche, I would say start where you are, start where you're most comfortable and build out from that.

SPEAKER_02 9:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:39

If somebody's so so scared of visibility, I would say pick one social platform, for instance, that you're most comfortable on and start there. It's better to show up on one than none. Anything you do do to show up will be a gazillion times better than the things you didn't do to show up. But I think it also has to do with clarity, and I think clarity or a lack of clarity is one of the things that makes people a little bit afraid of showing up. So, for instance, can you explain the value you bring clearly?

SPEAKER_03 10:11

Oh, we've had this discussion a lot of times, haven't we? Yeah, we know you can. Well, I hope so. But then what's your value? Your book, your words, your way. I help people put their stories across powerfully. Or whatever, it'd be better than that. Oh, come on. I haven't realized that. Yeah, but whether it's whether it's a book or whether it's teaching.

SPEAKER_01 10:29

Whether it's a book, whether it's content, whether it's I don't know, getting a speaker one sheet sorted out or a company brochure, whatever it is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:36

You scripts for events, that sort of stuff.

SPEAKER_01 10:40

Scripts for TV have even edited as well.

SPEAKER_03 10:41

I have indeed, yes.

SPEAKER_01 10:43

But it's your book, your words your way, or your story, your words your way. Yeah. Your big thing is making sure that it still sounds like them. Yeah. And then using whatever medium they choose to get that out there into the world.

SPEAKER_03 10:56

Yeah, and that's why I love interviewing them for that, doing that too, because that's helping a long way.

SPEAKER_01 11:00

And then you can lean back into your your your former PR career and your journalistic career, and then help them spread that message clearly. But what I've found is that there are loads and loads of talented people sitting out there who absolutely bury themselves in waffling jargon and vagueness. Jargon's the big thing.

SPEAKER_03 11:20

Yeah, it is. It's nothing worse, is there, than that. If you go to a networking event and somebody, you know what they do because you've got to know them over time. But when they stand up and present, for me, it's it's soulless. It feels like there's no energy in it because I'm not, I'm not, there's no clarity what they do. It's over-rehearsed sometimes, yeah, and it's just so tightly bound. Yeah, it's got to be worded in this way that you don't feel them coming through in the descriptor.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

And that doesn't necessarily matter whether it's presenting or whether it's the content you are presenting online. So um very often the people who are in more of the stayed professor professions, so legal, financial, very often they can be so afraid of stepping a foot out of line because there are an awful lot of guidelines they have to work within.

SPEAKER_02 12:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

That a lot of people, particularly on the finance side, think they can't show up online. Yes, you can, you just need to find the loopholes and work safely within them. And a lot of the people who are in legal, for instance, and I'm just picking a couple out of thin air now from from some of the people I've worked with, can be so caught up in legal ease that they'll create, I don't know, some text graphics, yeah, some lovely pictures of themselves with some some words on them or a quote on them, and they know what they mean. But they're not stopping to recognise that the people they're speaking to on Facebook, on LinkedIn, on Instagram, whatever, don't have that same legal brain. So what they think they're putting out there is something that's that that's really makes an awful lot of sense, this helpful. If people don't know what it means, it's not gonna be impactful.

SPEAKER_03 13:17

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

If someone asks what you do, and you tell them, can they instantly understand who it is you help, how you help, and why that matters.

SPEAKER_03 13:30

That's three really easy things to isn't it, to just ponder for a moment.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

Who do you help? How do you help them? Why does it matter?

SPEAKER_03 13:37

And I love that. It's a really good way of looking at it. It simplifies it, but the simple stuff is often the best way to get people to really relate to you and want to work with you, get to know you a bit more when you open up in that way and present it in that way, then it opens doors. I think I've found certainly in the 20 plus years I've been 20 plus. Oh dear, if only I wish. I wish actually I don't know if I'd want to go back to 32. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

30 was a good year for me. Wasn't for me.

SPEAKER_03 14:10

Because I met well, it was for me because I met you. I know 24 was a great year for me. There you go, I'm glad you said that. Sorry everybody. But anyway, that was a beautiful segue.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

Yeah. Because the other the the next put to I I can't get my words out tonight.

SPEAKER_03 14:24

But it's late tonight.

SPEAKER_01 14:26

I'm recording this because nearly 10 o'clock. The next part of visibility I wanted to talk about is relationships, and you just beautifully spoke about our relationship.

SPEAKER_03 14:35

Thank you. I didn't even know that. I didn't know that you were gonna do that. That's amazing. I must have known somewhere you see it. We're just connected so deeply, my darling.

SPEAKER_01 14:43

I know relationships, networking, how you put yourself out there, how are you coming across to me to people, and again, warmth, authenticity, being a genuinely nice person, yeah, is gonna be how would we put it cold brilliance. Far more from the cold brilliance. If people are really, really brilliant at what they do, yeah, but there's no warmth to them. Maybe they've got far too comfortable sitting at the top of their own ivory towels.

SPEAKER_03 15:15

You just said that you can see how good they are, but there's no there's nothing there to connectivity. No, it's like it stops and it's like it's just a job to you, and I don't see how I'm actually gonna be able to work with you. I've had that happen a few times when people have tried to, and the whole patterns, you know, rehearsed to the nth degree. Steel and chrome, and it's all about shiny bitch. That does not appeal to me. No, yeah, I know that feeling. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

So, and again, that Maer Angelou quote that I I paraphrase so often that that whole point about people remembering above your name and anything else and what you do, they'll all always remember how you make them feel. So when people hire, when they book you, when they employ you, they are generally contracting people they trust, yeah, people they remember, yeah, people they feel safe with, yeah. That's a huge one. Massive one. And people who've been recommended by others. Yeah. You know? So you can't I only gave this this slightly pink boot up the backside talking to somebody today, another person that I coach. You you you've got to stop being an island. A talent a talented island that nobody knows exists, isn't it? Yeah, isn't all what you're good. Talent plus isolation can be massively frustrating. You sit in there waiting for people to find you. It's not gonna happen. You've got to make yourself more visible.

SPEAKER_03 16:45

And that's all that if we're I'm honest, that has there's been times when I've done that, and you just become this bitter old so-and-so who's never gonna attract anybody, yeah. Or you've got desperation, you're dripping with desperation. Yeah, that horrible thing, you know, when you just think people just corner you at a networking event or something, and it's like, and just look at you and talk at you for 10 minutes, and it's just like and you can just feel the desperation coming off them.

SPEAKER_01 17:08

And that other level of frustration and I actually punched the safe another, but it's what the noise was, it was wondering. That other level of frustration that we saw quite a few times when we were running our PR business from people who would sit there and they'd say something along the lines of look, I've been doing this for for much longer than them, and I know I'm better than them, and I know I can help people more than they can, but look, they've just got in that newspaper, or there's a feature on them in that magazine, or they've just been on TV. Why aren't they turning the spotlight on me? Because you're not shouting loudly enough.

SPEAKER_03 17:40

People don't know you exist, and now you're shouting, telling them you're not shouting loudly enough.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

It's like the old days before everything was electronic and somebody going and getting a great big stack of leaflets printed about their business, but then sticking them in a desk drawer and wondering why nobody's picking up the phone to to to ring them or getting on on the email because because the leaflets are in a desk drawer, you've got to stop hiding. And then it's about consistency after that, isn't it? Because it's not just about showing up with one big hurrah, ta-da, jazz hands, look at me.

SPEAKER_03 18:12

It's the same thing that happens quite a bit, you know, as well. Even with people when they when they're creating their books, writing their books and things, if you're self-publishing, that often they'll do one big blast to say, look, this is my book and it's launched, and then then it sits on the shelf and they do nothing else with it. You wonder why they haven't got the sales that they wanted. It's like everything you've got to keep.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

They don't do anything to shout about it, they don't remind people it's there all the time. They don't employ somebody brilliant like you, Ash, to go and recheck that they still they're still using relevant keywords and they're in the right category six months later.

SPEAKER_02 18:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:44

You know, all of these things you've got to keep it warm. So what's that old it's an old it's an old Chinese-Japanese saying about keeping keeping water warm? You've got to keep it on the boil.

SPEAKER_02 18:56

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:57

It's about that.

SPEAKER_02 18:58

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:59

It's about knowing just just how much heat to keep under that water so that it doesn't either go cold or evaporate.

SPEAKER_03 19:05

So it what you're basically saying is if you if somebody just pops up and does a ta-da and then kind of doesn't and leaves it a month and then goes ta-da again.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

Does the Siegfried enjoy?

SPEAKER_03 19:16

Yeah, exactly. But doesn't consistently turn up and show up.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

It's like every now and then they burst out of a birthday cake, but then it's and then it's ta-da.

SPEAKER_03 19:30

It gets quieter.

SPEAKER_01 19:32

There are an awful lot of people who are afraid of visibility, really talented people, and they they it's like they'll work themselves up that much to show up that they kind of appear in these bursts but then disappear.

SPEAKER_03 19:46

Yeah, because that's you think about it, it's no surprise really, because think about the energy that takes. I mean, I I can relate to that 100%. Yeah, I've said to you before that I like to be, I'd far rather be behind the camera than in front of it. I have to gear myself up to do the in front of the camera bit. Yeah, so and it is knackering. It is can be it's absolutely shattering in terms of you, you know, feeling you know, absolutely tired out if you're building yourself up to do that. Because you put a lot of pressure on yourself. You can do, I do, I know I do sometimes a lot of the time. So there must be loads of people. I would imagine I'm not the only one out there feeling like that. So it's all that, you know, so you've got to you've got to find you've got to find a place to start, haven't you? And then be consistent with it, I guess that's what you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 20:28

Well again, if you're not doing it, meanwhile, somebody far somebody fairly solid, but far less dazzling and brilliant than you keeps showing up every week, every day.

SPEAKER_02 20:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:40

Yeah. Yeah. Front of mind. People know they're there. So what else do we need aside from talent? We've talked a lot about visibility. The other thing that I reckon we need bags of is emotional resilience.

SPEAKER_03 20:53

So, what do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_01 20:56

I mean recognising that it's not always easy and you need to be able to keep going, you keep putting one foot in front of the other and not sink through situations that can feel like feel quite challenging. So, can you cope with silence if you if you if you feel that people aren't picking up on your messages and aren't seeing you enough?

SPEAKER_03 21:17

Can you can you cope with that SRSD though for sure?

SPEAKER_01 21:19

Can you cope with rejection?

SPEAKER_03 21:20

I was just gonna say as well. Yeah, that's a good thing. Again, back to the ADHD and the neurodivergent element, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:26

That can that silence can feel like rejection. I can absolutely stop you in your tracks, yeah. You know, for some time, you know. We can be thinking that nobody's buying, nobody has money to spend, nobody likes us, nobody wants what we offer, when in fact they just don't know we exist. But back to the emotional resilience, re actual rejection. Yeah, not just OSD, yeah, but nose. Yeah, that brilliant quote. I think it's the Steve Chandler quote.

SPEAKER_03 21:54

You're winning, aren't you? Tonight. You really are going for the quotes.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

I think it's a Steve Chandler quote. Steve Chandler, if you by any chance listening to our podcast, hello, I think you're amazing.

SPEAKER_03 22:03

Yes, we do.

SPEAKER_01 22:04

Um Yes Lives in the Land of No. And I've quoted that back so many times. It's such a quoted out to me several times. Yes lives in the land of no. You've got to get through all the no's in order to get a yes. Yeah, you know, you've got to almost get to the point where you love no's, and yes is a pleasant surprise. So rejection, being overlooked or feeling overlooked, and again, how much of being overlooked is actually your fault because you're not being seen. Stop hiding not only yourself, but stop hiding the till as well. Criticism.

SPEAKER_02 22:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

And that's gonna come. The more visible you get, the more you open yourself to criticism.

SPEAKER_02 22:42

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:43

Fairly or not. Well, yeah, because I suppose it's an it, when you think about it, it's a natural thing, isn't it? Because you're gonna get talked about more because you're out there more, yeah, you're in people's faces a bit more, so you're bound to, by the law of averages, that's gonna happen more regular, more regularly, potentially.

SPEAKER_01 22:56

Yeah. I remember talking with Pam Case, LinkedIn trainer, she came on to our speaker training a while back. Yeah, brilliant public speaker. And I remember talking to her about trolls and us having this wonderful discussion about the fact that the percent the percentage of people who, for whatever reason, don't like you is there from the beginning. But when you're first starting out, you're not that visible, not many people know you. So, in percentage terms, even if it's five percent of the people who know about you don't like you, yeah. If you're only dealing with three people, you're not gonna notice that. But the more your numbers grow, the more visible you get, the more your percentage stays the same, but the number of people sitting inside that percentage quadrant, for want of a better word, yeah. Become noticeable.

SPEAKER_03 23:55

Okay, that's a good way of looking at it.

SPEAKER_01 23:56

Yeah, five percent of three as opposed to five percent of five thousand a million. Yeah. Suddenly the trolls and the people who don't like you, again, for whatever reason, it's usually not justified at all, they become far more visible. But one of the things to remember is the percentage stays the same.

SPEAKER_03 24:17

That's a really good way of looking at it, isn't it? Yeah, really, yeah, it's a nice level.

SPEAKER_01 24:21

So how's off to Pam Case? It was it was there I first spoke to about that, and it's again, I've quoted that about lots of times since. So, the other thing, yeah, slow growth. Can you cope? Do you have the emotional resilience to keep showing up when you are perceiving that lots of other people are skyrocketing and getting this overnight success?

SPEAKER_03 24:45

Oh, yeah, that one's caught me a few times, I must confess.

SPEAKER_01 24:48

Can you cope with growing organically? By all means, throw lots of money into advertising and and you know, showing up and social media ads, yeah, promotions. But if you choose not to do that, you're doing it all organically, can you cope with the slow growth?

SPEAKER_03 25:06

Yeah, if you're in it for the long, you know, long game, then yes.

SPEAKER_01 25:10

Yeah. So again, emotional resilience with all of these things. And the and the other thing, actually, on the flip side of that, we said being overlooked earlier. Can you cope with that being overlooked?

SPEAKER_03 25:21

But if you do get to be really successful, when you get to be really successful, the flip side of those to-da's have come up.

SPEAKER_01 25:28

To-do's.

SPEAKER_03 25:29

Sorry, I use the T word. Oh no, not in that way.

SPEAKER_01 25:33

Anyway, not in the orange way. No. If you can cope with being overlooked, once you grow beyond that, can you also cope with being overbooked?

unknown 25:42

Ah.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

That brings stresses of its own. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So all emotional resilience, you've got to build your emotional resilience. It's not just about talent. You've got your visibility, you've got your consistency, you've got emotional resilience. What else, Ash? What else do we need as well as being talented?

SPEAKER_03 25:57

Oh my goodness me. We need to be we we what box are people gonna put us in? You've got to work out, haven't you, what box you're gonna you're gonna fit into. Where do you the whole positioning piece? Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

Do you know what I mean? And it doesn't necessarily need to be a niche. You know, I think sometimes we we get far too hung up on niching. Sometimes you can be really, really super niche. And again, that lovely Kenneth Williams quote that I've I've mentioned so many times. I love it. It's so spot on in today's world. Yeah, so sooner or later people are gonna be so so niche that they'll become masters of cool. Carry on quoting Taz. There you go.

SPEAKER_03 26:36

Nice laugh. See what I did there, see what I did there. Anybody that doesn't matron! Exactly. There you go. Kenneth Williams, may he rest in peace.

SPEAKER_01 26:44

So essentially saying, What box are people putting you in?

SPEAKER_03 26:46

Yeah, yeah, basically.

SPEAKER_01 26:48

If people can't place you, they're gonna struggle to buy you if they don't know what you're for.

SPEAKER_03 26:53

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:55

So if somebody's just saying, I am a coach, for instance, right? But what are you coaching people in?

SPEAKER_03 27:01

You've got to be more specific, haven't you?

SPEAKER_01 27:03

Are you a football coach? Are you a basketball coach?

SPEAKER_03 27:05

I would have quite liked to have been a football coach. I think you'd have made a good football coach. Yeah, I think I would have done. I would have sworn a lot on them. I would have done a what's it from um Ted Lasso and Swan. A Roy. Roy. Roy, always swearing.

SPEAKER_01 27:18

Love Roy. Ted Lasso, come back onto our screen soon, please.

SPEAKER_03 27:22

Season two. Oh season two? What am I talking about? Season four. What are you season four or five? I can't remember.

SPEAKER_01 27:27

Anyway, the next one. Yeah, the next one. We go off topic. What kind of coaches could you be? Are you you could be a health and wellness coach? Are you a marketing coach? Are you a speaker coach? Are you a business coach? Are you a I hate this one, life coach?

SPEAKER_03 27:43

We've talked about that a lot, don't you?

SPEAKER_01 27:45

What kind of coach are you? What do you what do you do for people? You know, because if you put yourself in again, although I'm not saying you need to super super niche, if you're a jack of all trades and master of none, people aren't aren't gonna see you. You'll just be blending in with it with everybody else doing anything else. It's like who really who listened to this remembers yellow pages.

SPEAKER_03 28:12

Oh good.

SPEAKER_01 28:13

Imagine if you had to try and look somebody up in yellow pages, but you didn't know what pages were. Hold on. Sorry. Remember, if you were trying to find somebody in yellow pages but you didn't know which category to search under, how would you find them?

SPEAKER_03 28:26

Yeah, that's true, you wouldn't at all. That's a really good one to do. For people that may not know what yellow pages was.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

Well, it's probably going to be the same people who didn't know what finger mouse was and fingerballed.

SPEAKER_03 28:36

Exactly. So would you like to explain?

SPEAKER_01 28:37

Yellow pages in the olden days when Ash and I were growing up.

SPEAKER_03 28:42

It's a great big I don't think I think we're still growing up. I don't think we're there, but it's not is it still around? It can't be now.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

It's like a pamphlet now.

SPEAKER_03 28:50

It was a pamphlet last time I saw it, but I'm just gonna be able to do it.

SPEAKER_01 28:52

It used to be great big, thick doorstep of a book with guess what, yellow pages. You could call them cushion if you worked somebody with it. A massive directory of businesses.

SPEAKER_02 29:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:05

Didn't the strongman competitions used to use yellow pages to try and tear them off?

SPEAKER_02 29:10

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:11

So of course you and the categories were listed in A to Z.

SPEAKER_02 29:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:15

And you'd look up the category, and then inside the category, the people in your local area, because they're all local editions of yellow pages, that would just be dropped on the doorstep for you to find. And hope it didn't land on your foot because it could break it.

SPEAKER_03 29:26

Yeah. It was that B. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

No, it's not. You had to know the category you were searching for before you could then find the business.

SPEAKER_03 29:32

Yeah. So that kind of I like that. It's a good way of thinking about it.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

Try and find a business in it. And you're not sure if you're yellow pages. I've got a graphic pages. You don't know what category they are. Yeah. Like it. So you you might be multidisciplinary, you might have a portfolio business with lots of different strands. That's all great. But if the market, if your customers can't grasp where you fit within their life, their business, their their needs, yeah, then you need to work on your framing and make it a bit clearer.

SPEAKER_03 30:03

Yeah. Good advice. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:05

I like that. Yeah, I love that though. With the yellow page, you think that really works.

SPEAKER_03 30:09

Nice one.

SPEAKER_01 30:10

Thank you. I suppose the other thing we need, apart from talent, is the ability and confidence.

SPEAKER_03 30:18

Oh, yes. To ask. You mean true, yeah, you're gonna say that.

SPEAKER_01 30:22

Yeah. We've said before so many times some talented people sit there waiting to be discovered. Remember Brad Burton saying sitting there, sitting there aggressively waiting for the phone to ring. Yeah. If there's a loud if there's slurping in the background, I'm not sure if the the sound balancing is going to cut this out. It's our rescue cockapoo having a big drink of water right next to us.

SPEAKER_03 30:47

There's a good boy. You're coming up, Bob. Yeah, he is. Come on, dude. Come on, come on, there you go. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:51

So while some talented people sit there waiting to be discovered, others are asking for introductions, asking for opportunities, asking for testimonials, asking for the sale, dare I say. Asking for the sale, asking for the booking. Guess who's going to move faster? The person sitting there waiting to be discovered. Or the person who is actually out there asking for the opportunities.

SPEAKER_03 31:19

So true, isn't it? Whenever you step outside your comfort zone and you actually do that, and we've talked about this in the previous ones, but you know, going to speak to somebody because I wanted to help them write their story, and then I did, and then it works, and I got the I've got the contract.

unknown 31:34

You know.

SPEAKER_03 31:34

You've got to ask. You've got to ask, haven't you? Even if you even if your shut your legs are shaking, you've got to go and ask.

SPEAKER_01 31:40

Yeah, you have. All those things. You have. And again, with testimonials, so many people don't ask for testimonials. Use LinkedIn. It's set up for you to be able to ask people for testimonials. If you feel far too British to ask them, then use a facility like LinkedIn to ask where it's set up. Scroll all the way down to the bottom of your profile where it gets to recommendations and reviews, and there's a little button there saying request recommendation. Use that. And then don't just leave them sitting on LinkedIn. Turn them into graphics, stick them on your website. And actually, one of the great things about getting recommendations or testimonials through LinkedIn is that when you then put them onto your website, for instance, you can link directly through to the profile of the person who's making the recommendation. Which gives you that extra layer of credibility rather than you know, Mrs. F from Tunbridge Wells.

SPEAKER_03 32:36

Yeah. Yeah, I love it. That's good. Good advice, Task.

SPEAKER_01 32:40

Our last little category before this one has got me thinking now.

SPEAKER_03 32:42

Go on now.

SPEAKER_01 32:43

So name one person who is synonymous with yellow pages, regardless of any category.

SPEAKER_03 32:51

Don't know. Think of the old adverts. Oh, crumbs, you're going back now, grumbling to me, Tas it's late at night, and I'm looking at a card on our shelf at the moment, which is.

SPEAKER_01 33:00

Do you have a copy of Fly Fishing by J R by J.

SPEAKER_03 33:04

R. Hartley? J R J R Hartley. My name, my name, yes, it's it's J Right. Was that 80s or 90s? I can't remember.

SPEAKER_01 33:15

I think that's gotta be 80s. J. R. Hartley and the yellow pages.

SPEAKER_03 33:18

Anybody remember that one? You got me, uh.

SPEAKER_01 33:20

So the category then would have been antiquarian booksellers, probably. Probably. Yep. Yeah. Love it. Love it.

SPEAKER_03 33:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 33:26

So what else? What else? What else do people need as well as talent? What about proof? Yeah. Good old testimonials. But we said that a minute ago. People love evidence. Yeah. Testimonials are part of that.

SPEAKER_03 33:38

So case studies.

SPEAKER_01 33:40

Case studies. Features in the media. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Yeah. Radio, press, newspaper, magazines, television, books, books, books, results. That's something people don't talk about enough.

SPEAKER_03 33:54

What do you mean?

SPEAKER_01 33:55

So just what are the results that they are getting for their clients? Oh yeah, of course. What are the results that their products are creating for their clients? Whether it's making life or business easier, increasing revenue, decreasing staff turnover, whatever it happens to be.

SPEAKER_02 34:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:12

You know, when I'm talking about people who are coming onto the Heart of Speaking, onto our speaker training program, I frequently will talk about and show the evidence of where people have gone before, where people have come to do this trade this training, and then they've they've gone on to run their own events or be on radio or do TED talks.

SPEAKER_03 34:31

Yeah. Show the evidence. Yeah, I like that. And talking of TED Talks as well, speaking clips, you know, are good too. That's what you can use as well.

SPEAKER_01 34:39

They're really sound bites, sound bites, sound bites and speaking clips.

SPEAKER_03 34:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:44

They can be brilliant. And photos as well in action. It doesn't actually have to be you sitting on a stage and sitting on a stage or standing on a stage and presenting. You could have so got that wrong there for a minute. You know, we wouldn't have bleeped it. We'd have just laughed about it afterwards.

SPEAKER_03 35:03

Well, I don't think we've sworn once yet.

SPEAKER_01 35:04

No, I've sworn a couple of times this year. Did you? I didn't eat it because I used to. Yeah, I did. Goodness merely. Just like wallpaper from me, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 35:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:12

Where was I going with that? Oh, if if you're on something like a speaker panel. Yeah. Oh, yeah, that's good. That can be brilliant for credibility. Sometimes more so than standing on the stage because being asked to participate in a panel is a third-party endorsement of your expertise.

SPEAKER_03 35:30

And also it's that you've got to think on your feet a bit more because the very chances are you're going to get questions from the audience, you know, it's very interactive, maybe in a way that it may not necessarily be if you're speaking on the stage in the same way.

SPEAKER_01 35:43

There's a there's a really easy way of thinking about this in terms of its visibility to go back to visibility again. Talent is internal, but proof is visible. That's nice, I like that. Talent is internal, proof is external. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:59

Yeah, cool.

SPEAKER_01 36:01

What else? What else do we need as well as talent?

SPEAKER_03 36:04

Yeah. Oh well, people have got to like you, haven't they? Yeah, they've got to like you.

SPEAKER_01 36:09

They gotta like you or at least be able to relate to you in some way.

SPEAKER_03 36:13

None of that fake charm BS. Well, that's the thing, isn't it? I always say to people whenever I'm with content, it's like you've got to build that relatability. It's got to be that human interest that other humans are interested in other humans. We're nosy buggers.

SPEAKER_01 36:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:26

I swore a little bit, you know, as well. So you need to build that in your content.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

You really genuine human connection. Yeah. Yeah, that pe people often choose the person they want to work with over the person with the fanciest credentials. In the same way, it's kind of the reverse of that saying that people don't leave a bad job, they'll leave a bad boss. Yeah. It's exactly the opposite of that. People choose the person the person they want to work with over the person that they don't gel with in any way that potentially has better in airquot's credentials.

SPEAKER_02 37:01

Yeah, yeah, like it.

SPEAKER_01 37:04

And what else? What about timing? Timing needs to be on your side, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_03 37:10

Yeah, because the market's got to be right, isn't it? The right time for you.

SPEAKER_01 37:14

Yeah. Yeah. It's not just about being in the right place at the right time, it's about the timing of your offer. Sometimes the market isn't ready for you yet. Or maybe your confidence wasn't ready yet, or maybe your message just wasn't honed yet. You're still percolating. Yeah, still co still cookie dough, still baking.

SPEAKER_02 37:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:33

So you've you gotta make sure that you're not giving up prematurely. Sometimes the timing just wasn't quite right. Keep going. Timing matters way more than our egos like to exit to admit.

SPEAKER_03 37:47

What do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_01 37:49

I mean that our egos like to believe that we are the ones driving everything.

SPEAKER_02 37:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:56

But sometimes the timing of success isn't actually in our hands that much. We can do everything we can to drive it forwards. Yeah. But if the universe isn't aligning, then it's not gonna work yet.

SPEAKER_03 38:19

So you've just gotta trust a little bit in. You've gotta keep going, it's gotta be. You just gotta keep keep going on, keep going, keep going.

SPEAKER_01 38:26

Yeah. Okay. So what else? Anything else that we need to to tap into here? We talked about it being the visibility thing often being an issue for for women who've been taught to stay humble.

SPEAKER_02 38:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:40

Neurodivergent people who have or who perceive they've been punished for self-promotion or being too loud.

SPEAKER_02 38:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:50

Some who are in some of the more creative fields see themselves very much as being behind the screen rather than in front of the camera. Yeah, which is definitely that's where I fall into it, I think. Yeah. Yeah. People who've gone into self-employment who have come from a corporate background. This is another coaching conversation I was having with a client I knew last week, who still have an employee mindset and therefore they have been conditioned to wait for appraisal and to wait for validation before going ahead. Oh, so that's holding them back all the time, isn't it? Yeah. So does talent still matter? Yes. Massively. But I would still say it's not enough on its own. What about? Can we give some real world examples, do you think, about where visible where visible often beats being hidden?

SPEAKER_03 39:48

Go on then.

SPEAKER_01 39:49

What can we talk about?

SPEAKER_03 39:50

You're on a roll, I'm gonna let you talk tonight. You're doing most of the talking tonight, and I'm happy with that. Carry on. I'm not my thread's drying up. Delicial.

SPEAKER_01 39:59

It's 20 past ten at night while we're recording this.

SPEAKER_03 40:01

It's nearly time for my bedtime.

SPEAKER_01 40:03

We'd recorded a stack and we're sitting there really comfortably thinking, yeah, yeah, we've got to do another one. We've got some more episodes in the bag, and then earlier on tonight went, shit, we haven't got extras in the bag. There's not one scheduled for for tomorrow at 5am. So yeah, here we are.

SPEAKER_03 40:19

Last minute, so here we are. Here we are. Can you hear the desperation in our voices? Uh okay, so sorry, I'm waking up now, Taz. I'm giving myself a slap round the chops. Hang on a sec, right, I'm awake.

SPEAKER_01 40:31

An average consultant versus an invisible expert. So you got one person posting clear opinions regularly, showing case studies, speaking at events, yeah, and then another person with much deeper knowledge who says nothing, hates LinkedIn and hopes just referrals are gonna do it for them. Guess who's gonna get perceived as the as the authority there? Expertise and perceived expertise are not always the same thing.

SPEAKER_03 41:04

Oh, that's a good one. I like that one. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 41:07

What about the sole speaker circuit? The loud speaker versus the better speaker.

SPEAKER_03 41:16

Yeah, we've had, haven't we? So one of them's got really slick branding and you know, posts clips of their speaking everywhere and all the book. Does all that, yeah, they're regularly in your face in a good way, you know, really putting themselves out there. But then you've got somebody that you see on stage, and I've this I've seen this happen quite a few times when I've been to events, where there's been people out there who are really, really, really hot on stage, really good, really transformational stuff. Yeah, brilliant stuff, but they're really promoting themselves. So you see them then and you can't find them to follow up and learn more, and that's so frustrating, isn't it? Because you feel so inspired by what you've seen and heard, and of course, the first thing you want to do is go away and find out more about them. Do you know? I've got a real world example of this.

SPEAKER_01 42:03

Many, many years ago now, yeah. There was a speaker I'd seen at an event, and as is often the case, you don't remember much from the event, I remembered the first name, and I spent ages trying to find speakers in this niche because I wanted to get back in touch with this person and see if I could do some work with them. Yeah, and eventually I found somebody who fit the bill, right niche, right part of the world, same first name. And I found the contact details and I got in touch, and everything was wonderful, and we met up, and then when we met up, I had to bluff the hell out of it because it was not the right person.

SPEAKER_03 42:46

Oh, I remember that one, I know you're talking about now.

SPEAKER_01 42:49

Oh yeah, and I never owned up.

SPEAKER_03 42:53

Everybody's thinking, who was it?

SPEAKER_01 42:55

Oh, I'm never gonna tell. My lips are sealed.

SPEAKER_03 42:58

That was funny when that happened.

SPEAKER_01 43:00

But yeah, it's that's a perfect example. Yeah. So you know, guess who gets rebooked tomorrow often? Is it gonna be the one who's genuinely far more transformational, or is it gonna be the one who is showing up everywhere? Yeah. You know, with flashing neon lights.

SPEAKER_03 43:16

Well, it's the same in it. I was thinking about that with it's the same with you, I don't know, with people that write books, you know, you've got you've got somebody that's written a really beautiful book, but they're really quiet about it, they're not making a big fuss about it, they're just not promoting it, but it is a really good read. And then you'll get other people that are out there who've written a decent book, a good book.

SPEAKER_01 43:39

We've always seen books on best best sellers lists and then read them and gone, What?

SPEAKER_03 43:44

But they are doing absolutely everything, then they're networking, they're podcasting, they're not.

SPEAKER_01 43:48

Because it's driven by the sales, not by how good the actual book is. Yeah. So actually, best seller lists are usually driven by the marketing.

SPEAKER_02 43:57

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:58

And the same and that's same going back to the last point with speakers the booking agents the people who are booking speakers for gigs yeah they're buying they're buying these confidence signals and reliability not just talent yeah you've got to show up you gotta you more of the ta and again more with the same again with with books yeah you'll get a decent book or a halfway decent book by someone who networks regularly podcasts and appears everywhere is probably gonna shift more copies than a genuinely brilliant life and business changing book by somebody who rarely rarely shows up and doesn't promote it. I was just thinking that weight work needs oxygen.

SPEAKER_03 44:41

Yeah it does there was that where were we the other week we were at a lovely we had a lovely lunch or something didn't we cafe somewhere that's what I think it was and I hadn't really heard of them before and we ended up just going in there. Somewhere we went and I said how have we not been here before or we hadn't experienced it. This is in the last couple of weeks it's lost you completely hasn't it can't remember what it was where were we and it just made me think about that you know we've had that occasionally haven't you when you've gone in somewhere and you've it's down a side street or something it's a fantastic place really good food lovely customer service and then you go in but they're doing nothing you try and look them up to find out what they're I don't usually because for me I'm looking and thinking what's on the menu can we have an excuse to go back for another business meeting or something like that. Yeah and yet they're not out there promoting themselves.

SPEAKER_01 45:28

We had one didn't we a few years back we stopped off at a cafe somewhere. Yeah and it was a really lovely place but it wasn't in the best place for passing traffic and do you remember I spent ages talking to the owner who happened to be in that day. And once once they'd realised I was a business coach I was giving them loads and loads of advice and information but they weren't having any well they were they were soaking it all up but also couldn't be told anything you know everything I suggested oh yeah we're already doing that it's like you're clearly not doing that and a couple of months later lo and behold they closed down and I thought that's such a shame because if you'd just enacted just a few of those things yeah and that's not to blow my own trumpet a lot of this stuff was just off the cuff looking around and have you tried this have you done that have you done that yeah and they didn't survive because they weren't actioning they they were doing a Toys R Us.

SPEAKER_03 46:24

I'm still trying to think where we went the other day and I said it was Toys R Us.

unknown 46:29

Go on.

SPEAKER_01 46:30

So think about the brand Toys R Us yeah you know they were everywhere in their bricks and mortars buildings weren't they? But just not keeping up with the advent of technology weren't doing enough online weren't doing enough promoting you know and and eventually they they they just couldn't they couldn't keep up with with the pressure of of the world they were no longer profitable enough to stay in business.

SPEAKER_03 46:57

Yeah so that's that's a real classic you look look at so many of the kind of stalwart businesses that we've all expected to be a high street or a town or city staple but then they've rested on their laurels too much and relied on that stalwart image and then they disappear Woolworths good old Woolworths good old woolies used to call it didn't we Wilcos Crumbs got so many how many teenagers used to be our we used to congregate I used to love God I miss Borders had a fantastic coffee shop in there you could buy magazines newspapers books CDs videos or DVDs it would have been not videos I am that old everybody I am that old remember videos anyway well we're talking about the excellent local business that nobody knows about right okay yeah no so I was just saying about that that to me is when you whenever you get that you've got these excellent places but you know where's that somewhere that's got mediocre service and and and products best cafe in town hidden down the side street as you were saying well but with no socials no Google reviews no signage yeah meanwhile there's a mediocre cafe posting daily getting tags and tagged and asking for reviews yeah exactly guess where the queue forms guess which business lasts yeah exactly all of that so and it's such a shame and I'm still trying to think of that place where we went the other day but it'll come up as well what did we eat did we eat we did where were we don't know it doesn't help does it can you tell me I'm resisting the urge to go and pick up the diary now and try and look back to where we've been and you said oh we have to come back here again I can't remember it's gone don't worry anyway we're I'm diverting from carry on Taz where were we what about the employee who waits versus the one who speaks up this goes back to one of the things again that was happening on my coaching session today.

SPEAKER_01 48:55

If I had a half day deep dive session with somebody today where we were talking about that statistically that a fella will go yeah I can tick near nearly all those boxes I'll go for the promotion whereas a woman who has perhaps a bigger skill set statistically might go no I can only tick 60% of those so I'm not gonna go for it. Oh okay yeah so that so and the employee who's very very quiet in the boardroom you know one employee works brilliantly keeps their head down and assumes the managers are going to notice them. Yeah another who might not necessarily be to the high standard shares their wins volunteers contributes in all the meetings guess who gets seen as the leadership material. And we've all been in meetings with that haven't we when we can see that that going on and it's you know it's awful but it's it's very very true that that silence or a lack of voice all too often gets misread as a as as a lower value. Yeah yeah we've got to show people what we can do and remind them make it really really clear it's it's in this another another example I talk about a lot the the coach with every qualification with qualifications coming out of their armpits versus the coach with clear messaging you know and it's not just about certificates the the the coach who is who has an aptitude for coaching and all the life experience and business experience to back it up one has experience the right aptitude the right personality the right level of instinct and intuition and perhaps certificates coming out of their armpits but can't explain what they do and who they help yeah another one has few fewer credentials but can can can very very clearly say I help X achieve Y. Yeah and guess who gets those clients faster I suppose yeah yeah and again the clarity thing clarity outperforms credentials so we we could keep going on and on about this forevermore you know and it's it's these things we need to remember. Alexa stop that's Alexa reminding us to put the rubbish out of recycling recycling on the Tuesday. Yeah sure you all wanted to know that there you go listeners another insight a valuable insight into our life yeah absolutely so all of these things I'm hoping this is making sense you know it you we need to remember that visibility is only part of it it works with the talent so visibility might win first attention but you still then need the talent there the talent is what keeps people and it keeps the earning the referrals and creates longevity but if you're not visible in the first place and you're not asking for you know the support that we need and the testimonials and the referrals and all of that jazz everything we've talked about it it's it's not going to happen for you.

SPEAKER_03 52:00

What about do you think have we ever been the hat the talented but hidden ones yes definitely I think so I know I I think I have yeah I think I have oh I'm I feel like I'm blowing my own trumpet now that feels really awkward saying that but yeah I think so I think sometimes it's if you don't speak up I know like there's been times when I haven't spoken up you know I could have spoken up in situations and when you were talking about those those meetings that we've all been in where there's always somebody that kind of you know is the shining star that has always got an opinion on everything and knows everything and he's quite happy to tell everybody else and I've sat back and thought no what if I get it wrong what if it's you know what if it's not the right right way to say that that's h held me back quite a bit so I think yeah sometimes I've been in there and yet my experience I've got more experience than the person that's up there standing there saying yeah and you've got to be really careful there because it can be very easy to get into that kind of almost feeling a bit bitter about it and I have been there too modesty can be really expensive. Yeah but yeah so yeah I think I think yeah what about you? I've Yeah I'm sure I'm just thinking about and and not just us but people we know you know so many so many situations where confidence gets mistaken for competence yeah you know and how do then Ash how do ethical people become visible without becoming unbearable oh crumbs well being true to you just being not being yeah just being you know relatable that relatability being human staying humble all of that stuff that sounds really twe but it's true for me there's nothing worse than somebody that if you feel like it's just like brag braggie McBragtown forget Braggie McBragg. Yeah if you're Mr Mrs Ms Braggtown you know forget it that's turning me off quicker than anything it's got to be somebody that is really good at they do what they do they show it by the demonstrate yeah exactly the results yeah yeah not one that just to tell me that they're brilliant if you have to tell me that you're brilliant then that to me for a start just it makes me feel it's like that old don't tell me you're funny make me a laugh joke mine isn't it I don't I can't you know it's a real turn off for me so and I'm sure it is for a lot of people yeah absolutely don't tell me that car's a really comfortable ride take me for a test drive yeah all of those things yeah it's we need to remember that some people a lot of people out there are not winning because they're better they are winning because they are easier to notice so you need to strike a line for yourself you can be ethical and show up powerfully and I think the other thing we need to really really bear in mind particularly when it comes to social media is algorithms.

SPEAKER_01 54:55

Yeah so one of the challenges I have one of my coaching groups on at the moment is the challenge I give I give people at least once a year in this group is the 60 posts in a day challenge. Oh yeah haven't you just upped that I heard no oh I thought you were going to no no they were talking about I I said that with the advent of AI they're very lucky I wasn't turning it into 120. I heard something about something higher okay sorry I interrupted you 60 posts in a single day across your social media channels. They've got to be different posts there can't just be a reshare they've got to be 60 different posts across your social channels. Okay. The same posts shared three times on three different channels counts as one post. And people nine times out of ten they get really worked up about doing it because they think they're gonna be assholes and appearing all over the place and they're gonna be jamming everybody's feeds nine times out of ten people might notice them showing up a bit more on that day but the people you're connected to will not see every post because that's not how the algorithms work. Yeah. So one of the reasons I give people that exercise is number one so they recognise that algorithms are cleverer than that.

SPEAKER_02 56:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:10

But also to put it really bluntly to get them over themselves. Once you've you've done 60 in a day the idea of posting regularly feels much easier.

SPEAKER_03 56:23

You're looking at me Taz you're giving me that look that says Asher you need to do that because I haven't done it. She keeps she keeps hinting listeners but I still haven't done it it's a terrible terrible confession that's my second confession there are incredibly gifted people like Asher all over the world waiting to be discovered by people who do not know they exist oh dear I know but you know what the other thing is as well I think it's really important to say that if you've been hidden or you feel hidden it's not that you've it doesn't mean you failed no that's really important to say that I think it just means that you need a little bit of help maybe with visibility or getting yourself into the space of being comfortable with that visibility in order to make the most of it.

SPEAKER_01 57:08

It's a game and we can learn the game ethically yeah but you know don't be the world's biggest the world's biggest secret and you know maybe in another episode we can we can look at the way that people who are overly visible can sab sabotage themselves. Oh yeah and at that point when that happens that's when the the those of us who've been a bit more silent can can step up and and step into that step into that space that's been left. It's all kinds of things but that yeah you're right we this kind of episode can be really uncomfortable listening for people so Asher you you bang on please please please don't think you failed if you if you've acknowledged or e or you're just beginning to acknowledge that you've struggled to show up it doesn't mean that you can't.

SPEAKER_03 58:01

This is that first thing in life isn't it as it is in many things acknowledge that there's not an issue but there's there's something that maybe you need you need to work with.

SPEAKER_01 58:09

Yeah if you know that you're if you if you can acknowledge that you're good but you're wondering why you're being overlooked yeah these are just the things that you need to be you need to be thinking about because again talent alone is no longer enough there's so much so much we need to we need to drill home there. Being good at what you do is still the foundation but it's just I don't know it's it's no longer the whole building you're coming out with them tonight. I'm coming out with really tired analogies to be a little bit I was just gonna say cracky I just that was a bit yeah do you think we ought to wind this up I think we probably should we probably should before my analogies get more and more out there.

SPEAKER_03 58:48

And actually more important news guys I've got to put the recycling out. You have you have we know that because A L E X A just told you that I know and isn't that sad really everybody that you know being visible but I in order for my my recycling to be visible to the lovely operatives is that the wrong word that come along to take my recycling to the recycling place in the not in the sky or whatever. You know obviously and it needs to be visible at the side of the road so they know where to pick it up so I need to do that in a minute and we've now got a nice new road in a haven't we in a street because they've laid a new road today which is very good. I don't know why I'm saying that Taz I'm I'm just we should probably wrap up now we should probably wrap up my rambling a little bit yeah I think I'm in the most active I've been all through the podcast I'm just waking up now. Time for a cup of tea everybody yeah just remember excellence is not rare but visibility is I'm glad you're here to s put the sensible messaging out whereas I go rambling on about recycling new shiny roads and ALEXA actually you mentioned ALEXA I'm pretty sure that I'm though so tired my voice has slurred quite a few times tonight. I am a professional speaker I promise you reminds me of got a gig at 10am tomorrow is it is it bad to think it's it's nearly it's now 1039 and is it bad to think I really want an apple turnover because it's in the it's in the cupboard but you're saving no you've made me want one but we're all going to save them for tomorrow. We are going to save them for tomorrow are we or are we going to have one with a cup of tea I've already had one today.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:23

So have I shall we have another one no I'm never gonna be skinny anyway if this episode hit a nerve for you you might want to go and listen to our episode on visibility myths. Do you like Apple turnovers? If this episode hit a nerve for you you might want to go and listen to our episode on visibility myth or maybe bookable or broke next a good one yeah yeah yeah they will tie in with the stuff we've been talking about tonight tonight today whatever time you're listening to this wherever you are in the world she has awesome as well listeners I know so shall we leave it there? I think so I think we should because I've got to put the recycling because Asha needs to put the recycling out and we need to have a cup of tea and an apple turnover. And in the meantime we will see you next Tuesday you've been listening to Awesomly off topic. If you've enjoyed this hit follow and subscribe and if you want more come and find Awesomy off topic on social media that's where all the extra bits live stay awesome stay off topic and we'll see you next time