🎙️ S2 E9: How We Nearly Lost Everything – And Built Something Better

Some stories sound dramatic until you have lived them. We’re talking about the moments that almost broke us as a couple and the very real ways stress can turn love into a battleground: paranoia, spiralling thoughts, silence that feels safer than honesty, and the gut-wrenching fear that the person you trust most might leave. We share a turning point on a trip to Vancouver, how suspicion escalated into searching for “evidence”, and why one badly handled truth can echo for years even when nothing happened. 

We also go behind the scenes of building a business together, watching it fly, and then feeling it crack under burnout, overwhelm, perimenopause, and ADHD realisations. We explain what it looks like when one partner can no longer keep up, how over-helping can accidentally disable someone, and why we made the terrifying decision to sack our biggest paying clients to protect health and keep the business alive. Along the way we touch on MS relapse, grief, pet loss, intimacy drying up under pressure, and the financial shock that can follow when you are simply trying to survive. 

This is a conversation about trust, long-term relationships, mental health, and the unromantic mechanics of staying together: counselling, evidence-checking, brutal honesty, and choosing to talk when you’d rather bolt. If you’re navigating jealousy, menopause changes, neurodiversity, business partnership strain, or the feeling that the hard times are starting to outweigh the good, we hope you leave with steadier ground under your feet. Subscribe, share with someone who needs it, and leave us a review if this helped.

Transcript

Why This Topic Feels Raw

SPEAKER_03 0:00

This is Autumnly Off Topic, where we talk books, brands, business, and everything else we're not supposed to say out loud.

SPEAKER_02 0:08

Hi Basha and Tad. Let's dive in. Welcome back to Autumnly Off Topic. Today we are talking about something that's going to strip us a little bit raw, potentially.

SPEAKER_03 0:19

Yeah, I'm a little bit nervous about this one if I'm honest.

SPEAKER_02 0:21

I'm a little bit nervous about it too.

SPEAKER_03 0:23

But uh it's alright, feel the fear and do it anyway.

SPEAKER_02 0:25

Absolutely. Our last episode we talked a little lot about how we met and our relationship and all the good stuff. But today we've decided to talk about a topic that we think is going to resonate with a lot of you. It's probably going to resonate whether you're in business, whether you're in a relationship, wherever it is. We're going to talk about the moments that almost broke us.

SPEAKER_03 0:48

Yes. Over to you, Taz. You can start this because we've had No, we haven't, we said we'll be honest in this recording when we're recording this tonight. And yeah, I want a starting point, and we've kind of talked a little bit about it, but go on, you go first and then I'll I'll chip in.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

I think that's an important point actually. We did talk about this a lot before hitting recording going on air about whether whether we were both feeling ready to to talk about these topic points. And it's only with both of us saying, Yeah, definitely we want to do it that we're going ahead. So important. Yeah. So we've had lots of times in our 28 years together where, for whatever reason, we could easily have gone our separate ways. Yeah. We've also had the same in the business where we did in fact separate from working in the same business to go in our own separate ways, but our relationship

Paranoia And The Early Accusations

SPEAKER_02 1:40

stayed solid. And I guess in order to give this a bit of background, it's important to note that even from the early days, Ash struggled with a little bit of what we affectionately refer to as paranoia.

SPEAKER_03 1:52

Yeah. Yeah, without a doubt. Lack of self-worth, self-belief, belief in us as a couple, but me as an individual, worrying about that was just getting nervous and my coffee cup just stuck to the t you took the thing with it as well. Coaster, that's the word. Coaster, that's the word. Yeah, and that I felt really convinced that nobody would love me enough to want to stay with me and be with me. And that's one of those that still keeps coming up from time to time, nothing like it used to, but it does, and it's to the point where in the end I went and got some help. But we'll talk about that in a minute. So it's always been there with me from when we first got together. Yeah. Um, but there have been times when it's been really tough for both of us, but particularly for you, because of what I put you through.

SPEAKER_02 2:36

Yeah, but it was tough for you too to be in that place. I mean, when we were living together and working in the same office together, and commuting to and from the office together, Ash was still convinced I was having an affair then. It's like, well, when when would I have the time? You can see me pretty much 24-7. How? And she'd always come back with, well, if you wanted to, you could run rings around me, you'd find a way. But you are looking at me literally every day and every night. I'm with you. How? And it's easy to joke about it, but it has been challenging. Particularly that what's caused it for you again is the paranoia is this being convinced that I was gonna have an affair somewhere. And then there've been several times throughout the years where someone has developed a crush or an unhealthy attachment on me or you. Yeah, but particularly you.

SPEAKER_03 3:26

Or maybe you just noticed him or it was me. But I was gonna say, because probably in the kind of roles that you've had in work, it's kind of led to that a bit more for you personally, I think. But that's not to say I'm not saying I'm not saying that's not the case. I'm just saying that, you know, from our experience, it's been.

SPEAKER_02 3:40

Well, there are a few people right now that have big Asher-shaped crushes that have actually confided in me about very courageous of them, or daft.

SPEAKER_03 3:47

Yeah, I was a bit daft, really, wasn't that? I think so. At least you learned to say daft instead of daft.

SPEAKER_02 3:52

Anyway, go on, go on. So yeah, it was so bad. I remember in the early days once I was bringing one of my friends over to meet Asher for the first time. Asher was still living in Kent, I was in Leicestershire. And Ash was convinced I was having a fling with him. To the point where when I turned up to the house and went in, there was nobody there. And now I went off and drove around the block. Yeah. And she was sitting in a side street watching us drive past and just having a tantrum because she thought we were.

SPEAKER_03 4:18

Well, I didn't know what to do with the what was coming up. That's what I didn't know how to process it at all. And I just thought, fuck, I've got to do something. And that's a random thing that I did. At least I didn't I didn't, as far as not to this point anyway, I've never boiled a bunny on the stove. Because I've never had a bunny while we've been together.

SPEAKER_02 4:35

But then the the big one, there were lots and lots and lots of regular accusations like this, weren't there? And you were really worrying a lot of the time. And it used to feel like it didn't matter what I did to reassure you, yeah, it would still come up. And as much as Ash keeps saying how horrible it was for me, I I know that it will have been it must have felt horrible to for you to have those thoughts and that level of conviction swimming around your head all the time as well. Yeah. Yeah, I mean that's a really deep trauma, isn't it? That's that just keeps coming back and biting you on the bum and biting you on the bum again.

Vancouver And The Truth That Landed Late

SPEAKER_02 5:10

But I think the time where it bit hardest was the first time we went to Canada together.

SPEAKER_03 5:15

Was that the first time or the second? First time. It was the first time, wasn't it? Yeah, because we were staying in Vancouver. Oh yeah, we were. Yeah. Beautiful city, one of my favourite cities. But it wasn't at the time I could have been anywhere. I could have been in a cinema in the middle of I don't know, Bexley Heath. Not that I've got anything about yeah, anything against anybody that lives in Bexley Heath. I used to work there and live quite close there as well, so there's nothing wrong with it, but I just plucked that out of the air. But yeah, you're right, it was a difficult time, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_02 5:42

Have you ever got the impression, dear listeners, that we might be circling around and avoiding the topic a little bit? Are we? I think we're we're going around the houses as much as we can. So ultimately, because I knew Ash's levels of paranoia, there was something I hadn't told her about. Boom boom boom. And it was essentially that a woman at work who was in a junior position to me had made it quite clear to everyone at work that she had designs on me. And after an office do in a different city where I was in a different hotel to everyone else for whatever reason, everybody'd come back to my room for drinks because the other hotel bar was closed, and gradually everyone left one by one until I realised, oh my god, there's just me and this other woman here. And because I knew of Ash's paranoia levels, I was like, what do I do? What do I do? What do I do? I was invited to go and join in the bed and I refused. Let's just say, long story short, because I was so worried about what this woman might do or might say, I put up the ironing board and I got out a shirt and I ironed the same shirt over and over and over again, all night. Still makes me laugh so. At which point she did try it on again briefly, but no, go, off you go. But anyway, you had picked up that something was going on, hadn't you?

SPEAKER_03 7:08

My spidey senses were tingling, yeah. I think sometimes you can just pick up on these vibes. I was like, there's something going on, there's something going on.

SPEAKER_02 7:16

Yeah. Yeah. And I didn't tell Ashra because I knew what her paranoia was already like. I think I told I told you that she'd spent the night in my room and that'd stay opinion all right all night because that's such a ridiculous story. Who's gonna believe that? Honestly, you all you needed to do was to check the creases in those sleeves. There's no way that would have been done on a once over it. Put your finger on those creases in those shirt sleeves. Crikey. But it all came to a head months after it, didn't it, when we were in Vancouver.

SPEAKER_03 7:44

Yeah. Yeah, because without going into huge detail, but we'd gone out wandering through Vancouver, hadn't we? Yeah. And then I got my period rather early, so it meant I had to go back to the hotel to get myself sorted out a bit. Which meant we were already a little bit stressed. I was very stressed and very embarrassed. And so it all kind of came out then, didn't it, really? It started to. I can't remember exactly what happened. I think I've probably there's part of me that's gone, no, don't, you know.

SPEAKER_02 8:11

I don't remember the exact details. I remember you saying that you were convinced there was an affair and refusing to believe me. And there was a conversation about whether you were just gonna go and get on a plane and leave me, and that was it. You confessed Nothing overdramatic at all there, was there? You confessed that you had been going through my pockets and my bag and my purse and everything, looking for receipts and evidence.

SPEAKER_03 8:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:36

And that was when I told you what had actually happened. That nothing had transpired of that kind, but that, yeah, this woman had made it very clear that she had designs on me.

SPEAKER_03 8:45

So I kind of picked up on something, but obviously again I was including you in that instead of it just being something that somebody else had got, a thing for you.

SPEAKER_02 8:52

And of course, the fact that I hadn't told you had made it worse, although I still maintain that if I had told you, that probably would have been the end of us because you wouldn't have believed it.

SPEAKER_03 9:01

Probably in that moment. Yeah. I think so.

SPEAKER_02 9:04

I remember sitting in this amazing sort of 3D, you know, one of those cinemas that goes all the way around.

SPEAKER_03 9:10

A my IMAX cinema, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 9:12

Yeah, no, no, with wildlife footage and stampeding buffaloes. Buffaloes and.

SPEAKER_03 9:16

It's all these incredible special effects, and we're just like, I'm thinking, can I get on the plane?

SPEAKER_02 9:20

Yeah, we're sitting there in absolute silence with the most horrible tension running between us.

SPEAKER_03 9:26

Yeah. Cool, there was that then. Did you hear that? Because I keep hitting the desk. I don't know. I'm nervous talking about this.

SPEAKER_02 9:31

How did we get past that? Because we were in for that that holiday, we were in Vancouver for X amount of time. A week, I think. A week in Vancouver. And then we were flying into Calgary and then driving from Calgary through to Banff. Yeah. How did we manage that? How did we move from that point where you were so convinced that I was having or I'd had an affair?

SPEAKER_03 9:55

And that you were too scared to tell me because you were worried about the implications. Yeah. That that was a also part of it, wasn't it? I think because we just even then, despite the way we were both feeling about things, somehow we managed to get the conversation going, even if it was really hard. And just keep talking. You've just been really, really honest. Yeah. And I and I I don't think I don't think we were to begin with. Not really. I think we were too scared to be to go totally there and be 100% honest. Okay. I mean, in terms of how we were feeling and how close we were to splitting up, I think it was too terrifying a prospect to even think about. I think that only came out later when we got home. But I think while we were away, obviously there were some amazing distractions because we were in a beautiful country and lots of scenery and amazing wildlife and wonderful places to visit. It must have been about 2008, 2009. Yeah, something like that. But I think then, I think we did start to talk while we're away because we're away from all the pressures of home life and everything else and all the responsibilities. So it started to open us up a bit and then we carried on that conversation when we got home. I think that's that's that is what enabled us to work through it. But it took a long time, didn't it? I think it's safe to say that you still had suspicions for a long time afterwards. Yeah. A long, long time. Yeah. I think because what I couldn't work out in my head was what made it worse in my eyes, was that you hadn't said anything. Now I understand why you didn't, and I I would agree, I think you made the right call on that occasion. Definitely. Oh I've got that recorded. What? That I made the right call. On that occasion. On that occasion. There's a get out. Um but yeah, and I think that now, knowing what I know now and where I was, now in a state I was, I think that was exactly the right thing to do. But at the time it was like, well that's obviously guilty, isn't it? And that that stayed in my head and went round around for ages in some of the stuff that came out when I when I was talking with my therapist.

SPEAKER_02 11:51

But of course, it wasn't just that. We had we've had a few other people who've tried to get between us. Yeah. We've had people who've again had

How We Talked Instead Of Leaving

SPEAKER_02 12:00

designs on one or the other of us and very clearly tried to create subterfuge, tried to create some kind of subdifuge the right word. Yeah, it is, isn't it? Tried to create some kind of chaos between us. And we've even had people who've tried who've been so annoyed and upset that one of us has spurned to their advances that they've tried to ruin our businesses as well. It's been there've been some really tricky times. But one of the big times we wanted to talk to you about as well is how our business split. So again, we're going back a long, long time now. We've talked before about how initially Turquoise Tiger had grown out of AJB Communications. When I left corporate in 2010, we changed the business to both be working in it from a copywriting agency that you ran um to a full-service digital media PR done for you, training, mentoring, everything, marketing business. And it was really good for a while, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_03 13:12

Yeah. It was flying, wasn't it? It was really flying, we're getting really good months, good return. And enjoying it. Great testimonials, great feedback from customer feedback. Really, really enjoying it. It felt like the world was our oyster. Absolutely. We could do anything and we were doing everything and getting loads of awards for the colours. And we got we got yeah, and we also got we had a really good rate, didn't we, in terms of success rate conversion with you know, we're going in for in the days when we used to do pitches for PR, we had something like I think it was like a 98% success rate, something like that. So it was good, it w life was good, wasn't it? But then, Eastenders again. Okay, for any listeners who don't know what we're referring to when we do that just to make it clear. The British soap opera. I know. Yeah, cool. So then what happened?

SPEAKER_02 14:01

Well, then we didn't realise at the time what was going on, but you were starting to have some really difficult times, weren't you?

SPEAKER_03 14:08

Yeah. And I think it's only now realising that it was mid-breakdown at various points. And menopause came, I think the breakdown came before, almost certainly came before the menopause or pre-menopause, pre-menopause hit, then I had that with going through a breakdown.

SPEAKER_02 14:25

Of course that was before you've recognised your ADHD and possibly or DDHD.

SPEAKER_03 14:31

So all of that going on, all hitting at once, or a realisation that it was all hitting at once, and then of course, something's got to give, hasn't it? And that unfortunately for us at that time was the business.

SPEAKER_02 14:42

Yeah, because ultimately what was going on is not only was the paranoia was coming up even more, and I was feeling proper battered by it, and I know you would have been as well, but just at opposite ends of the spectrum. Not all about me, there was two of us really suffering at this point, but also Ash was just losing the ability to just keep up with things.

SPEAKER_03 15:03

Yeah. So everything was too much.

SPEAKER_02 15:05

We'd go into meetings, and for instance, I remember I remember one big meeting in London, and I was doing all the talking, and you were sitting there taking the notes. So because I was engaging, I wasn't taking in exactly everything we'd got to do as a follow-up, didn't need to because Ash was making notes, and then I we walked out of the meeting and Ash went, You did get all that, didn't you? And I went, Well, I remember this, this, and this, but I know there was more that you were you were doing your notes, weren't you?

SPEAKER_03 15:28

So that's alright. Yeah. And of course I wasn't. What I was doing, which is one of the things, one of my stims, is I was doodling on the page, so I'd write a sentence or two, and then I'd get distracted with something else, and I tried to tune back into the conversation, and then if I couldn't remember it, I'd panic and I'd be going over the same words, the same sentence, again and again and again. And when you look back through those notebooks, crikey, I was pressing down so hard on those notebooks that you could read it all the way through the whole notebook pretty much because of the pressure. Actually, oh the irony, the pressure I was putting on myself in that moment, yeah, because then it was like I don't remember. I don't know where I was. I was in the meeting at the beginning, I remember the nice cup of tea and when the biscuits came round, surprised and the all the all the the now we know it's classic overwhelm. Well, yeah, and I did the beginnings bit, I could I on the face of things, I looked like I was being, you know, really engaging, really listening. But actually, if you'd take me out of there and then asked me what had been said in that that our meeting, I couldn't have told you. And it was a big meeting for us too, wasn't it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:30

And we managed it, but of course then it just kept getting worse. Yeah. With not only the the paranoia stuff, but Ash would get off a long phone call with a client and then say to me, I can't remember any of that. Well, were you taking notes? No. I tried to, but I couldn't. This kept happening, and I could recognise, and my my fear was that bloody hell, there's only so often I'm gonna be able to to pick up this ball and fudge it. And sooner or later, I'm not gonna be able to pick up the ball and and make it look okay either. And we're in danger of tanking the whole business, and both of our reputation's going down the spell. And it took a lot to get to that point, and I wasn't gonna make that decision. And I think what made it worse is that the more I struggled, the more I'd leap in and do things for you.

SPEAKER_03 17:17

Yeah, which disenabled me, exactly that. But you did it from a place of love and gearing and holding and all that wonderful stuff, but actually longer term it was never gonna be a good move.

SPEAKER_02 17:27

Helping somebody too much is just And of course there's only

People Trying To Split Us Up

SPEAKER_02 17:30

one way back from then. And I remember I was starting to get my coaching business up and running at the same time, kind of five to nine in, if you like. And I remember us doing some work with a friend who we're also doing some business coaching with and swepping swapping in and out with them at the time. And we walked in for the meeting one day, and the first thing she said was, Taz, I'm sacking you from Tiger. And I had this immense feeling of guilt and relief all at once. And I think your world just started to crumble a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 17:58

Yeah, he did. And actually, it was looking at it now with hindsight, it was the best thing that could have happened. It certainly didn't feel like it at the time. It felt like my world was just imploding, which it was, I was imploding mentally, without a doubt. And it's only now when I talk to people I realise just how far I'd fallen. But it's like most things, isn't it? When you're in it, you don't see it. And I really was numb to a lot of stuff at that point. So actually, you doing that, and you know, there was a time when I was really resentful of that. I was like, Well, I mean I needed you most, you weren't there, which of course is bollocks, but uh you know it was really hard to to deal with that, but it was it was the best thing because it then pushed me to think, right, I've got to I've got to change, I've got to make some changes.

SPEAKER_02 18:41

Well, one of the first things we did, wasn't it, was sit down and look at the clients and look at what was stressing you out the most. And ironically, the the biggest stressing point stress points for you during that time were our two biggest paying clients. No. And so we did the only thing that well, it wasn't the only thing we could do because I always believed there's a choice, but we did what felt like the most sensible thing to do at the time, and we sacked our two biggest paying clients so that Ash would have some chance of coping and being able to do the business.

SPEAKER_03 19:09

Yeah. And it was really frightening, really scary. We'd got into a very nice pattern financially. Yeah. Where we were, as I said, we were flying at that point, where we up until those last few weeks, months, we were really flying, and then it was We literally took out something like two-thirds of our income every night. With not a lot to back it up. It's that moment, isn't it? It's moments like that when you can either keep on keeping on, and you know that phrase has become such a thing, hasn't it? It's entrenched in our kind of way of thinking. Keep on keeping on. That's great if the keep on keeping on is actually gonna serve you long term, but if it's not, then sometimes you got you gotta you gotta bite the bullet and say there's gotta be some changes, and that's what happened.

The Business Boom Then The Crack

SPEAKER_03 19:50

We were at that stage where, well, I don't know how we'll work it out. I didn't know how we'd work it out. I don't think you did then either. I don't think either of us did. We just had to jump, we had to just jump and see what happened.

SPEAKER_02 20:01

I remember sitting down with one of my best mates, Phil Crowshaw. Phil, if you're listening, hello, who was best man? Hello, Phil. Best man at um at our wedding. The legal one. We've had several.

SPEAKER_03 20:13

That's another podcast for another one. Yeah, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 20:17

And saying to him that I was really worried about you and that I didn't know what was going on, I was really worried about your mental health, your emotional health, and that I was really worried about how I was going to keep going because I couldn't trust you to do stuff. Because you'd say, Ash would say, Yeah, I'll do that, and I'd say, okay, and then it wouldn't be done. So I didn't feel I could take things away from you because then I'd be worried about making you feel worse. But at the same time, you're saying, well, what do I do if you're taking on these responsibilities and then they're not happening and I'm finding out at the eleventh hour that you haven't done them when I haven't got time to very quickly do them when they're not quick jobs. And just saying to Phil, I didn't know I don't know what I'm gonna I don't know what to do. And you know, he he knows Asher as well as you to bits. And he was really worried about you too, and he said, I think what you're gonna have to do, Taz, is work as if there's just you in the business. And you're gonna have to just take on the bulk of everything and and just do your best to keep it going until Asher's feeling well again. And then not long after that came the, well, Taz, you need to go and do your thing conversation with with the coach we were friends with as well, which was horrible at the time, but But of course the other thing is that meant suddenly I went from kind of playing at coaching because I could just do that casually and not charge properly because all the money was coming from Tiger. And all of a sudden, I had to think, shit, we've just got rid of two thirds of our income. I need to make this work.

SPEAKER_03 21:50

Like yesterday. Yeah. Foot to the pedal, foot to the foot the foot to the medal.

SPEAKER_02 22:00

Pedal pedal to the metal, that's it. Pedal to the metal.

SPEAKER_03 22:03

Okay. I knew what you were going to say, I think. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:06

And it was I mean what the the most valuable lesson I turned I learned in business from then is that actually, although statistically it takes three to five years to grow a business and to turn a decent profit, when you need to, if you are smart enough, you can make a hefty profit very, very quickly.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:26

But you gotta be be committed to doing it. And my goodness, did I have a driver?

SPEAKER_03 22:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:31

I had to. And also, because in the background I was still so worried about your mental health, about how Asher was doing, I was also thinking, is she gonna be able to keep going with Tiger? Or do I need to be moving this to the point where actually I'm earning enough for both of us? And so, yeah, really difficult times. So it was around about the same time as well that you were getting your multiple sclerosis diagnosis. It all hit at once, didn't it? In fact Actually, no, you'd had the diagnosis, but it was when you had your relapse and you couldn't walk.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:03

Because you had your diagnosis in 2006. So this would have been 2011, 2012, something like that.

SPEAKER_03 23:11

So a bit later. But yeah, it it's quite everything though, isn't it? You often get that in life, don't you? When you get one lot of shit, you get another lot, and then you get another lot, just hit you when you're down. And it was, it did feel like that, didn't it? Definitely. I mean it certainly did for me. I don't think I felt a lot, if I'm honest. When I was in the depth of it, I don't think I was feeling anything particularly other than And meanwhile we were growing further and further apart.

SPEAKER_02 23:32

Yeah. Because we were both so stressed. I was worrying about Ash's health. I remember us thinking at least the one diamond in the rough is that it might pay the mortgage off with the insurance and they wouldn't touch it because your mummy had MS, even though it's a tiny, tiny percentage increase.

SPEAKER_03 23:49

Yeah. Chance of you having the same thing is very small, but it still was enough to stop you not allowing us to pay off the mortgage, which was a bit bummer too.

SPEAKER_02 23:58

Dealing with dealing with all that stress of suddenly my wife can barely walk, she's not wanting to tell anybody she can't walk. So I'm having to hide that as well. It was it was tough. And of course, just when we started to feel like we were building back from that. You know, only a few years after that, we went through all the the difficult times with Thea and Freya. You know, with my um with our with our dog and our cat both getting horrible cancers at the same time. We were having to sleep downstairs with her, and we were taking it in turns. So that meant that we weren't having any intimacy, and I don't necessarily mean in the kind of x-rated intimacy, just general intimacy,

Breakdown Signs And Client Work Slipping

SPEAKER_02 24:40

being together, holding one another, just that skin-to-skin time and just mind to mind, heart to heart. And that then brought all of your paranoia back again.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:50

And one of the worst times in our lives, in terms of essentially essentially, I don't think either of us ever subscribes to the it's just a dog thing. We don't have kids, they are I know lots of people say you shouldn't call them fur kids, but they they are.

SPEAKER_03 25:04

Yeah, they are. We don't have kids, so they are our kids.

SPEAKER_02 25:07

They are our kids, and it was the most devastating time. And I was having to work harder than than ever because with the level of treatment she was going through, it smashed through her insurance levels very, very quickly. So, you know, there were there were some months where her treatment alone was costing, you know, four, six, eight grand.

SPEAKER_01 25:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:28

It it got ridiculous.

SPEAKER_01 25:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:31

And by that time, Ash had been poorly, wasn't bringing in as much with the business, so then I really did have to put my foot to the metal. And of course, more money was going out than was coming in. I had my c had my eyes completely off my accounts because everything was just on earning and just on bringing in enough to to look after Thea. And after Thea had died, and after the cat had died as well, that we found out later at the same level of cancer, we realised in hindsight that I'd inadvertently smashed through the VAT threshold. So then ended up with a 30 grand VAT bill.

SPEAKER_03 26:03

Yeah. It all came and kept coming, didn't it? As we said, when it keeps coming, it keeps coming. Yeah. And it was one thing after another. And the more stressed you got, the more the paranoia came in. Yeah, because that that was a pattern that I discovered later on when I was talking to people about it afterwards, was that that was one of the early signals that things were not right and I needed to address things. And I just let it run.

SPEAKER_02 26:25

And of course, because we had all the emotion around both animals dying and all the stuff and all the stress for you trying to keep the business going and of course we'd had we'd we'd like we'd lost parents and family members in the years preceding that as well, and everything came a bit and bitters on the back side. And I was starting to go through my perimenopause and fall to pieces with that, my ADHD versus.

SPEAKER_03 26:47

So, okay, with all of that then, how on earth have we managed to be where we are and to still be wanting to be together? Because I would imagine a lot of people listen to that, maybe a bit this resonating for a lot of people, I would imagine, whether it's about a relationship or a business relationship or a personal relationship or romantic relationship, have been in these spaces and said, right, okay, I think this is a time for change, we need to call it a day.

SPEAKER_02 27:13

So what's allowed us to enabled us to want to carry on and well for me at a very, very basic level, it's the levels of love that we have for each other, certainly that I have for you, that have always made me think, what what's big I have this thing where I'll sometimes, if I've got two things I'm trying to choose between, I'll imagine they're kind of weights and put one in my left hand, one in my right hand, and go, which one of these is heavier?

SPEAKER_03 27:40

You're saying I'm heavier. Thanks. And then I'll put on a bit of weight. I'm not putting a bit of weight over the years, but it's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_02 27:48

I'd be a proper writer breaker. No, the the amount, the amount of I think that's cute, but I'm not sure at the moment.

SPEAKER_03 27:58

I've just eaten a whole packet. Well, we have between us, a whole packet of jumper doggers.

SPEAKER_02 28:02

Yeah, but the raspberry flavoured one and that's a fruit, it doesn't count. Oh, okay, that's fine then.

SPEAKER_03 28:05

Okay, cool. Imagine all the sugar though.

SPEAKER_02 28:07

The amounts of love that I held for you were bigger, outweighed the challenges.

SPEAKER_01 28:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:17

And I always knew that no matter how difficult it got, and it did get really difficult at times, I would still, even if I just did not know which way to turn, which way not know up from down or left from right, even if I was drowning in floods of my own tears, I still knew that I would rather be with you with the issues we had than without you and without the issues. And I've always had this really simplistic view that and I know if we listen to enough, you know, if we watch enough TV dramas, it's uh it's always the case this gets brought up so often. I have a very simplistic view that if you love someone enough and if you feel that you are meant to be together and you can see a future together, you work

Splitting Roles And Sacking Big Clients

SPEAKER_02 29:10

on it. And yes, so often yeah, so often in TV dramas and the like, you say, Oh no, love isn't enough. I think it is.

SPEAKER_03 29:16

Yeah, I do too.

SPEAKER_02 29:17

But then you have to work at it, it takes deep, deep levels of honesty.

SPEAKER_03 29:21

Yeah, exactly that. And that and that's why, in the end, going for counselling and therapy was needed because I there was that moment when I thought, if I if I don't do this, I'm not giving us a chance to rekindle what not that we'd lost, but had been buried amongst all the other shit that was going on. And all my stuff, and that felt really so important at that moment. If I hadn't done that, if I'd not looked myself in the eye and gone, you need to sort this, you need to sort this out. This is your shit that you're putting on somebody else, it's not fair. And you love that person, you don't want to you don't want to fuck it up after all we'd been through to even be together in the first place.

SPEAKER_02 30:02

Yeah, yeah. Because you've got to remember that right back in the beginning when we were together, life was pretty nasty. I'd had death threats, I'd had to go into hiding. There's a whole back catalogue of stuff there. It was scary, scary times. And back then, again, remember we're going back 28 years, things like section 28 was still there, and I know they're trying to bring in another version of that now. Uh we've just had the midterm election results over here. Don't call them midterm over here, anyway. Local elections. That was the local elections, and you know, the results of that are scary enough. But back then homophobia. Was there more homophobia then? No, it was just talked about more publicly. Yeah. It was there were difficult times. There were times where I genuinely thought I was gonna get shot and not be able to live. So the simple things like being able to wake up together in the same bed were just magical, the stuff that we all take for granted. So we'd been through so much, but what was it for you, Ash? Because if how did you manage to still find a way back to us when you were so convinced that I was being unfaithful for such a long time? How did you get I did on that?

SPEAKER_03 31:23

I don't believe you can fake that feeling, that sense of love from another human in that way that we have. I don't think you can even the best actors in the world can't fake that. I think it's something you've got to feel, and if you feel it as deeply as we have over the years, I still do, and I know you do too, I think that's what makes it worth fighting for. Because I knew, because I can I'm telling you, even the thought of thinking about it now, I get this horrible feeling in the pit of my stomach that just I wouldn't want to be here without you. And I and I don't I don't think you can't fake that. You can talk about it, you can write poems about it, but to actually really feel into that, and for somebody that I'm sure that I see myself as being quite far on that autistic scale, for me to say that is a big thing. That doesn't happen very often for me, but I you I couldn't argue with that because it was still there. However much I was convinced at times in that deluded state, if you like, in that state of mental ill health, I knew that the love was still in there somewhere. And and I know it was because you know I'd bargain with myself and say, well, if it is the worst, then could you live with that? What would you be like if you thought it was about sharing that that person, i.e. you, with somebody else? How would I deal with that? Would I be able to find a way through that? And I wasn't sure I could, but I'd try because I'd rather have that and not have you at all. So with me. So yeah, so I went through a lot of that. That really, and the counselling helped enormously with that. Because, you know, and that I I used that in a previous episode, you know, where's your evidence? That's the one that gets me out of town, you know, when I've if I've gone back into old habits again, that's why I always ask.

SPEAKER_02 33:12

But there never was any, was there? No. Never. But you'd you'd very careful, cleverly your brain would very cleverly kind of join darts.

SPEAKER_03 33:21

Oh god. I mean yay for our brains, even if it's not a very positive one. But how you how it automatically connects things up, you know, reading things into different into different things. We've all done that over different things. It might not necessarily be over a relationship or a romantic relationship, but when we want to find, we we put the pieces together and we think it's right. It's like having that jigsaw puzzle, isn't it? When you're a kid, you remember and you used to have the ones with the little pins on them, and you'd be trying you'd be convinced that that piece goes in there and you'd be pressing it really hard to try and get it to fit.

SPEAKER_02 33:53

And the corners of it.

SPEAKER_03 33:54

It fits, but it's an uncomfortable fit, and that's exactly where my mind was with it. My mind and my heart was in that space, and in my heart, if I really dug deep, I knew underneath all that, there was actually another jigsaw piece that needed to fit in there, and it wasn't that, it wasn't that piece

MS Relapse And Survival Mode

SPEAKER_03 34:10

of the story that needed to get that wasn't even part of the story. I'm making a really weird attempt at trying to Oh, I get it.

SPEAKER_02 34:18

And I suppose the other one of the other things we've come up against over over time is every now and then, somebody, usually somebody older and more mature and with more insight in into life, the universe and everything.

SPEAKER_03 34:30

Really? We're getting on a bit now. There can't be that many more people that are older than us now. Not older than me anyway.

SPEAKER_02 34:35

But somebody will will will start to take one or both of us aside and say we we should really spend more time apart. Because it's not healthy to spend that much time together, you know. Yeah. And I think well why? Because I think particularly now we've worked through so many of those those issues. You know, you're not just just my wife and and my love and my heartmate and my soulmate, but you're my best mate as well. You know, I'd spend every minute of every day with you if I could, and it still wouldn't be enough. And I think we're both like that. So then I think, well, so why are people trying to get us to be be apart if we don't want to be? And I'll, yeah, people start talking about codependency and all sorts, but I don't think it is codependency, because yeah, we can go and do things on our own. We can, you know, go and do our own thing. We have done from time to time. But if we don't genuinely don't want to, why should we have to? And then people will say things like, but if but when one of you dies, the other one won't be able to cope. Hold on, so you're telling us that we shouldn't be spending all the time we can together while we can. So that we don't feel as bad when we can't spend time together. Why would we want to waste that opportunity then?

SPEAKER_03 35:49

I always think of the thing when we I sometimes I frequently go, God, we met I was 30 when we met. I wish we'd met when I was 20. That would mind you, no, that would have been wrong because you would have been 14. Can't do that, there's a six-year age gap. But what I mean is even that doesn't seem long enough. But because there's always new things I'm learning about you and you're learning about me, and things that make us laugh. Sometimes the same really cheesy things that everybody else kind of groans at. But it's it's that love love language, if you like, that's in there. And I just sometimes I think, yeah, I d I do, I think it's important, yeah, to sometimes we need our own space. We'll say, you know, one of we'll be sitting in the same room, you're reading a book, I'm reading a book or doing something else or loading the vision. Yeah, but but it's it's what works for us as a couple, isn't it? So I think you can't kind of one size fits all. No.

SPEAKER_02 36:42

I think you know, if we think about our relationship as a whole, the only big sticking point has been the paranoia thing. That's been the one that's been our Achilles tendon all the way through. And if we can get past that, which we are doing, then it's all good. It is all good. But it but it is as well, we talk a lot about working to stay in a relationship. Relationships aren't always easy. I still wouldn't have it any other way. But I think we're in such a throwaway society now that there are phrases like, you know, well when the bad when the bad times outweigh the good times, it's time to move on. Well, no, what if one of you is ill? Or again, you're both having a real trouble struggle through through menopause.

SPEAKER_03 37:27

Menopause has so much, doesn't it? It affects women in so many different ways. Someone just breathed through it with hardly any symptoms, to be fair. Yeah, but some have a horrendous time, and you had a horrendous time. I didn't have

Pet Illness, Money Stress, VAT Shock

SPEAKER_03 37:40

a great time.

SPEAKER_00 37:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:41

You know, some of us type go down the HRT route, some people don't, and that's our that's obviously should be our own disorder. You want homeopathy. Yeah, and and finding what works for us, exactly. But it can change things so much in a relationship, in a in a female-female relationship, or actually, no, in any relationship. Yeah. You know, and having that, and then on top of that, with the ADHD for you as well, that's been a massive time of change for for both of us, isn't it? And throughout that, what's really interesting is the businesses we've gone off and done our own thing, but now what's happening is we're naturally coming back together with some of the projects that we're doing and finding a new way of working together. Yeah. So of course, with the the people that we were 20 years ago, we're not the same people. Right. But we found a way. It's like that old analogy, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 38:28

About the the rail tracks, where sometimes the the tracks separate, and if they're meant to do, they they join join back up further down the track. Yeah. And you know, we kept our relationship together, we kept our marriage together, we kept our love there even through the challenging times, we remembered that this what we had was always worth fighting for.

SPEAKER_03 38:47

It's that though, isn't it? It's that whenever we've had any disagreements or times when we've doubted it, and we've spoken about this before, is that I feel and this sounds so terribly dramatic, and here comes another East Enders boom boom boom boom boom boom. But it's that wasn't quite right. But thank you. You're welcome. But I don't think any East Enders episode can do it justice because it's that feeling like you're you've been you your heart's been ripped out of your chest and torn in two. The thought whenever we've had any fallouts and we've maybe separated for a couple of hours or something, or one of us has or I've done my usual dramatic exit thing and I've done a few of those over.

SPEAKER_02 39:25

I was forgetting that I can look at find my iPhone in the way you're.

SPEAKER_03 39:28

I'm not telling you where I am exactly. I've just gone round the corner and you know.

SPEAKER_02 39:31

I'm not telling you where I am, you're on the corner in Surfleet.

SPEAKER_03 39:34

Was I? I don't think I've ever been on the corner in Surfleet.

SPEAKER_02 39:37

You were down you were. You were down already to Surfleet once. You were. Was I?

SPEAKER_03 39:41

Yeah. When you were doing you've done a dramatic stomp off. Probably when you were. It's not very dramatic though, is it? If that you see, even in East Enders they wouldn't go to Surfleet. Sorry, anybody in Surfleet?

SPEAKER_02 39:49

You didn't know I knew you were in Surfleet. Um probably when you were convinced it was having an affair again.

SPEAKER_03 39:54

Probably. I'm supposed you didn't think I was because I was going off to Surfleet for me surfing in Surfleet. Anyway, so yeah, so but that feeling of that absolute my feeling like my heart's dropping out of my chest, out of my gut, and everything else, and that ac that agony, emotional agony, is just the most worst thing ever. So when that's happened, it just you know, that doesn't happen if you don't really for me anyway, if you don't really love somebody and you don't do what I mean, if you really care and you really want to make it work. And it can be that that dramatic. Yeah, it's like c could I imagine life without you?

SPEAKER_02 40:31

Yes, but I don't want to.

SPEAKER_03 40:33

Well that's nice then.

SPEAKER_02 40:34

I wouldn't have said that. That's what I'm joking about. That's the point though, isn't it? That surely the codependency thing is that no, I could never imagine it. Yes, I could, but I don't want to. Exactly, there you go.

SPEAKER_03 40:44

Yeah, I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_02 40:45

Well, that's more powerful than saying no, that's a choice rather than taking inability.

SPEAKER_03 40:49

What I was gonna say was it's funny actually, because as I've got older, I've said to you, sometimes I've said, right, okay, we need to make sure if anything, if I go first, if because I'm the oldest one, so I often say that, I need to make sure that you're okay, you've got people around you that'll support you, and I can vet who it's gonna be. If you're gonna partner up with somebody else, this is you know, they've got to pass the test. And but but the fact that we can have those conversations, I know we joke about it, but we do talk about things like that now, whereas we probably wouldn't have done that for the thing.

SPEAKER_02 41:17

It's nothing, it's a sneeze in the great. I know, but you never have an idea, but spectrum of time. Yeah, that's true. A sneeze in the great spectrum of time. Oh, lovely. So poetic. So romantic.

SPEAKER_03 41:31

Kill me now, you completely killed the conversation now.

SPEAKER_02 41:34

So, yeah, that you know, we survived separating through separating the business

Why We Stayed And Got Help

SPEAKER_02 41:40

and going our own separate ways for a while because we kept the communication going, because we loved each other, and because we kept working towards being better. We've survived all the ups and downs, whether it's Ash's paranoia or people trying to split us up or people trying to ruin our businesses. Because we kept talking and because we believed we were capable of law. And that's always been our philosophy. And I don't think it's about being afraid to never be without the other. It's about deciding and choosing that we're not meant to be and we don't want to be. And that's a really powerful thing. And all the time that we feel we're meant to be together, then we will fight heaven and hell and anything else to to succeed.

SPEAKER_03 42:33

Well said, madam.

SPEAKER_02 42:35

Yeah. So that's how we've survived 28 years together. So many people, you know, look at us and assume we never have any issues. We've been called hashtag couple goals.

SPEAKER_03 42:47

Yeah, but couple goals don't come from it's not all dreamy roses round the door all the time. And we've joked about it before and said, haven't we, about that whole thing about, you know, when we go maiden to maiden, we're in both in that maiden archetype, you know, where we can take on the world, but also we can take on each other. Both bitchy teenagers, obviously. And it it can get ugly sometimes, but it's it's coming out the other side of that and recognising that the love is still there. And that even if sometimes things are said in haste or in hurt. Which is obviously always you, never me. Of course. Well, of course, obviously. I'm I'm I'm definitely the bad cop in this episode, without a doubt. Um No, I don't think you are a bad cop. As I keep saying, I wouldn't make a very good cop. I really wouldn't. I don't know, the uniform odd cop thing. Okay. Thanks. Um What about me trench and love? Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 43:39

Excuse me while I involuntarily invol I can't speak, involuntarily cross my legs. Thank you, that's lovely. As much as you keep saying you're the bad cop, I've said time and time again that although it it can feel like I am the victim in this, fuck that, because again, the world of pain you were in to have that going. On in your brain.

unknown 44:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:01

The world of absolute, the absolute shitstorm you were living through every day that convinced you that the one person that was never gonna fuck about was fucking about.

SPEAKER_03 44:12

That's just that's that huge thing, isn't it though? That is what have has come up in therapy and counselling about trust and that having that trust broken in previous relate other relationships. Yeah. You're my beautiful exception. You're my beautiful exception. We have to do the silly voice as well, obviously. That's that's our love language, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 44:34

Yes. Even when we were first getting together. Oh yeah, we were talking to somebody earlier on who's going through the most horrendous breakup and it's absolutely chattered. And we were saying then that I can't remember it's gone.

SPEAKER_01 44:56

It's gone. What was I just gonna say?

SPEAKER_03 44:58

I don't know. I mean I can read your mind very often, but it's all over the place. Where do we go from? I have to rewind. I'm trying to rewind for you. You were talking about You were talking about somebody that's gone through a traumatic breakup and there earlier. And before that we were talking about. Oh, about me not being the bad cop necessarily. I'm trying to rewind on what we've been talking about. Remind us, listeners, this would be a test for you to see if you've actually got a few. Oh my goodness, tell me you've got ADHD without telling me you've got ADHD. It's done on vacation. Okay, well, if it's supposed to come back, it'll come back. Worry about it. Crakey. It's okay, Taz. It's been a long week. It's only been a four-day week this week, actually. But it's been a long week.

SPEAKER_02 45:45

Oh my goodness, I hate my my memory right now. I like thereof.

SPEAKER_03 45:48

It'll come back. Well, where should we go now? Because we're, you know. I don't I can't remember what we were talking about. We were talking about good cop, bad cop, and you were saying it was.

SPEAKER_02 45:58

I was saying that it wasn't you weren't being a bad cop because to have that level of shit going on in your mind every day must be absolutely horrible. And how on earth were were you managing to cope with that? And there is no good cop and bad cop.

SPEAKER_03 46:12

And then you went to somebody that you know that is going through a breakup.

SPEAKER_02 46:16

And I was gonna say something really profound that I'd said to them earlier. Right, it's gone, Taz. It's gone.

SPEAKER_03 46:24

And that, listeners, they were hang they were hanging on for that, but you know they've all switched off now.

SPEAKER_02 46:28

You know it's gonna come to me at four o'clock this morning.

SPEAKER_03 46:30

We'll have a mini podcast.

SPEAKER_02 46:32

A mini podcast edition.

SPEAKER_03 46:34

This is six o'clock in the morning. Five o'clock. This is what it was. Goodness me. See

The Codependency Question And Choosing Us

SPEAKER_03 46:40

that we've got we're in our office today. Our office. We're in our Tazzy studio today. It's our studio, so it's mine, it's ours. Probably it was yours, and then I've kind of I've got a book nook in the studio, but we've got some lovely new things that we've put up on the walls. We've got a bit kind of message tastic here, haven't we? So let's let's see what we've got. We've got one at the top is what's the best that could happen.

SPEAKER_02 47:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:01

And that's always been What is the best that could happen? I could remember what was about to live until we're 150. Absolutely. We're still as in love then as well. The day we met. Yes. And we're still doing silly things like putting unicorns on the walls that are in your brand colours, which are purple. We've got another one that says Don't stop me now. That one, and we've got another one below it that says, Surely not everybody was kung fu fighting.

SPEAKER_01 47:30

Everybody was kung fu fighting. It was as fast as lightning. It's just a little bit sad.

SPEAKER_03 47:42

Okay, thanks, Taz. So I think this is going on this anyway, podcast. We're going off a bit awesomely off topic.

SPEAKER_02 47:47

We know, talking of this podcast, that's really an important point, isn't it? Because we were saying earlier.

SPEAKER_03 47:52

Oh yeah. That actually this wasn't the thought. No, this wasn't the thought. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 47:57

We were saying earlier that actually it's it's partly this podcast that has brought our businesses back together again. We've still got separate businesses, but there are now more and more projects that we're we're planning together. And a lot of that is due to us choosing to do this podcast, which has put us back into working closely together regularly. Which has I'm touching your knee, we're very close. Which has brought a lot of that vibe back. And which has got our creative juices flowing.

SPEAKER_03 48:31

Oh dear. Yeah. And I'm looking, so one of the other pictures on the wall is it's the scream, but it's got a dark on it instead of.

SPEAKER_02 48:42

We've got a slope with glasses and a cup of tea.

SPEAKER_03 48:46

We've got a raccoon with a sunglasses. Yep. And blown a bubble. We've got a polar bear.

SPEAKER_02 48:53

With sunglasses and blown a bubble.

SPEAKER_03 48:55

We've got a chameleon with a lollipop.

SPEAKER_02 48:58

And glasses.

SPEAKER_03 48:58

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 48:59

And a giraffe with sunglasses blown a bubble.

SPEAKER_03 49:02

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 49:03

And three tiki men.

SPEAKER_03 49:05

And yes. And.

SPEAKER_02 49:07

Got light side and dark side on the light switch with Yodra and Darth Vader. We've got up the top, we've got Marvel superheroes climbing around the doorframe.

SPEAKER_03 49:16

We've got two ice creams.

SPEAKER_02 49:17

Two ice creams. Melting ice creams on the wall that act as clothes hooks.

SPEAKER_03 49:22

We've got a one of my proudest things up here on here on my shelf. Your lioness football. My lionesses football. Come on, lionesses for the World Cup next year. It's next year, isn't it? Yeah. We're going to beat America in the final. That's my prediction. Yeah, yeah. And we'll get rid of Spain in the semis.

SPEAKER_02 49:38

Yeah. We've got oh, we've also got two pieces of original Sammy Scott artwork on the walls. We have. We've got a lovely tiger on the walls as well. We've got a picture of Jesus popping his head around the corner saying, I saw that. We've got sign behind Asher saying so much panic and very little disco.

SPEAKER_03 49:55

Don't know what you mean by that.

SPEAKER_02 49:56

ADHD Avenue. And above the door, dramatic exit.

SPEAKER_03 50:01

Yeah, we did mention that.

SPEAKER_02 50:02

We haven't finished yet. We've still more to do.

SPEAKER_03 50:04

Oh, you've got another one. You've got have you forgotten down there?

SPEAKER_02 50:07

Oh, yeah, little group. We've got a little group. Little group coming out of a door at the bottom of the wall.

unknown 50:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:13

And we've still got more to do. Goodness me. So, Asher, the secret of a successful relationship as well is laughing. Laughing is creating a studio space that looks like you've taken a load of psychedelics and vomited all over the world.

SPEAKER_03 50:27

I looked around it this afternoon when you'd put everything up on the walls and I was like,

Laughter, The Studio, And A Practical Rule

SPEAKER_03 50:30

wow, this is really good.

SPEAKER_02 50:31

We've still got the massive pink llama blowing bubblegum to put on one of the doors. I know. We've got the psychedelic team and an electric guitar for the other door.

SPEAKER_03 50:40

I might need a dramatic exit zoom. We've got our neon sign. We've got our awesomely off topic sign. And we've got my little poo on the desk that says a positive poo. I may be we've said that before, a tiny poo, but I believe in you, so go do your shit. Yeah. So yeah, so I think the secret The secret is what?

SPEAKER_02 51:00

The secret is what everyone's going to say to to our friends. Keep communicating, keep talking. Yeah. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 51:06

Especially through the hard times.

SPEAKER_02 51:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:09

Because I think that's the one thing I think, even though sometimes you've had to prize it out of me, I think the fact that I was able to do that and then learn how to let go a bit more in some of the work I've done on myself has really helped. I think what I think we can do is hold it in.

SPEAKER_02 51:24

You gotta recognise that the love you have for that person is greater than the concern for yourself sometimes. So I remember what this would take us too long if we went into it now, but when you were going through your time with MS where you were struggling to walk again. And I was encouraging you to keep trying, and you were spiralling into the depths of giving up for a while. And I remember saying to you that I was not gonna let you get off easily and just let you spiral and that I would rather you ended up hating me and being able to walk than giving up. And that was really hard.

SPEAKER_03 51:59

Good cool. I'll never hate you, I always love you. I'm not gonna sing don't panic, everybody. I know Taz Taz, no don't, really. They've switched if they're still with us, it's a miracle.

SPEAKER_02 52:09

Or would it be the same version or the Dolly version?

SPEAKER_03 52:11

Oh no, Whitney or Dolly. Oh Whitney. I'm sorry it's got a bit of a. I know she it's her song, isn't it? Didn't she write it? Yes. But I love Doll Dolly. Get well sing Dolly. We love you, Dolly. We do. What was you gonna say? Yeah, but Whitney's voice, she she just had the most incredible voice, didn't she? Amazing singer. Yeah, so we're going off topic. I think we've gone we should stop.

SPEAKER_02 52:36

I think we've probably gone awesomely off topic enough. But I hope that has given you some some hope. I hope that's given you some insight, whether it's whether you're in a relationship, that's a romantic one or a business relationship or a friendship, keep talking, stay open, and check in with yourself. If the tough times are coming, check in is this worth fighting for? And if it is, then fight for it.

SPEAKER_03 53:01

Definitely, with everything you've got. Yeah, and then some. Love you. Love you too.

Keep Talking And Fight For It

SPEAKER_02 53:10

And until next time, we will see you next Tuesday. You've been listening to Awesomely Off Topic. If you've enjoyed this, hit follow and subscribe. And if you want more, come and find Awesomely Off Topic on social media. That's where all the extra bits live. Stay awesome, stay off topic, and we'll see you next time.