Awesomely Off-Topic: Books, Brands, Business and Everything Else We’re Not Supposed to Say Out Loud
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Awesomely Off-Topic: Books, Brands, Business and Everything Else We’re Not Supposed to Say Out Loud
🎙️ S2 E23: ADHD, Meltdowns And Getting Through The Next 10 Minutes
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⚠️ CONTENT WARNING: This episode includes open and honest conversation around mental health, ADHD meltdowns and suicidal thoughts. Please look after yourself while listening and skip this one if those subjects feel too close to home right now. Support resources are included in the show notes below.
A long, critical situation can strip the dopamine out of everything and leave you feeling like your brain has crashed, even when you’re doing your best to hold life together. We take a listener question from Tracy and get painfully honest about what an ADHD meltdown can feel like, from the “glitch” where everything pauses to the full-body overwhelm where noise hurts, decisions become impossible, and tiny demands are the final straw.
We talk through what helps when the stressor is not going away: shrinking the time horizon to the next ten minutes, reducing input before you add strategies, and using “body first, brain later” check-ins (food, water, sleep, heat, screens, the loo). We compare our different regulation needs, including when one of us needs movement and the other needs escapism, and why that difference matters in relationships. We also share practical supports like safe dopamine, gentle state-breakers, body doubling, and tools such as weighted blankets or compression clothing, all with the reality that you may not be able to access the same solution every day.
If this resonates, share it with someone who needs a softer, more practical way through ADHD overwhelm, and please follow, subscribe, and leave a review so more people can find the support.
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Welcome And Tracy’s Question
SPEAKER_04This is Autumnly Off Topic, where we talk books, brands, business, and everything else we're not supposed to say out loud. I'm Ashra and Tat, let's dive in. Hello and welcome to Autumnly Off Topic. Today we're going to be doing things slightly differently. We've had loads of great messages from you on our hotline, and one message in particular really stood out for us, and we thought it deserved an episode in its own right. Have a listen.
SPEAKER_02So hi, this is Tracy from the Communication Guru, and I love listening to Awesomely Off Topic. Usually I'm either in a supermarket listening or I am in the car driving listening. Either way, I'm listening and usually laughing. Usually at the almost funny you two end up having when there's something that you don't agree on. Nine times out of ten because patterns for Ash are on the spot. And that's like love it. So I do have a question for you relating to ADHD. And I know that you talk about ADHD a lot on the podcast and have done over the last couple of seasons. So I'd like to know what both of you would suggest for someone going through a really critical situation that doesn't look like it's got an end state insight. And if it is it's kind of been going on for two months with probably another four to six weeks going on with it, who's going into complete ADHD meltdown on a physical functioning, impulsivity, and the whole fact that there is just no dopamine attached to anything anymore. But the meltdown massive. I mean really massive. So come on, guys, tell me your best tips for reverting an ADHD meltdown that at the moment has no sign or the stress of what's causing the meltdown has no sign of abating. Keep up the good work, guys. Love listening to you, and I hope to hear you in the supermarket near anybody sometime in the future.
SPEAKER_04So
What Meltdown Feels Like Inside
SPEAKER_04a really interesting question from Tracy. Thanks, Tracy, for your question, which really got us thinking about things and how the experience is for Taz, because obviously, as a lot of the listeners will know, Taz was diagnosed with ADHD just before her 50th birthday. So, Taz, I'm gonna ask you firstly, what does an ADHD meltdown actually feel like for you? Can we talk about that? Are you comfortable talking about that?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, sure, so long as you know I'm gonna throw it back at you and ask what it's like for you as well in the game.
SPEAKER_04Okay, okay, that's cool.
SPEAKER_03An ADHD meltdown. It depends what's going on. They sometimes can display in different ways depending on what stage it's at, whether I've noticed I'm going into a meltdown before before it happens, and I don't always, and how big it is. It's for me, it's like every bit of my capacity has just gone. There's no buffer left, there's there's no there's no safety net, everything's just shut down. There's everything suddenly becomes too much, too loud, too complicated, too many questions, too many people, too many fucking things that require something from me, and I've lost the capacity to be able to do it. So and it something really tiny can can tip me over, and it I don't know, it'd be interesting to see how it looks from the outside, but I'm guessing from the outside it can look like I'm reacting to one tiny little thing, but it won't be, it'll just be that's that last thing, that final straw that broke the camel's back analogy. That one last thing in my head has gone enough now, and it's like my thinking brain has just gone into lockdown. What what's it look like from the outside though
The Early Warning Glitch
SPEAKER_03for you?
SPEAKER_04I think well, one of the things I guess I've learnt over the the years, particularly since the diagnosis for you, and just being a bit more aware of things, is often it will be sometimes you'll just have that moment of what we call a glitch. Yeah. So you'll that's one of relatively early signs.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's an early sign.
SPEAKER_04But that's the first thing for me. If there's a few of those.
SPEAKER_03What do you mean by that? Because people might not know what we mean.
SPEAKER_04It could often be just appearing to just stare into space or stare or or just focus on one thing, but no kind of really eye movement or anything. It's just a staring kind of feel to it, if that makes sense. Yeah. And uh I can speak to you sometimes, and it's almost like there's there's a cutoff in terms of the hearing. Lights are on and nobody's home. Yeah, it's like or if there is a response, it's kind of got a delay to it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_04It's it there's a you know, might only be a couple of seconds, two or three seconds, but it's noticeable from your usual self outside of that those moments when you're it's generally quicker, there's a quicker response. So that's one of the things I think I notice. That's a fairly early thing. Often dare I say it, but sometimes I notice a change in the pitch and tone of your voice, so it might be a little bit more agitated, so appear to be agitated in the tone. Yeah, but equally that could be me having that reaction to it, so I'm not saying swearing by this at all, but just that's one of the experiences. And very often you'll talk about noise sensitivity. So, say I've got I might have a podcast on. Often I'll most times I'll listen to it on headphones. But if I've got something going on or I might be scrolling something, there'll be that too. So, and you'll be very sensitive to that, and you'll notice that, and you'll, you know, you'll ask me to put my put my volume down so that it's not interrupting you as much.
SPEAKER_03And when that happens for me to be clear, it's physically painful. Yeah, it's not like a monie that's just a bit loud. I understand that now. The noise physically hurts. And incidentally, I'm sure I've said this before, but a lot of people think about ADHD and think that's it, you've got one kind of fairly stable line that is your ADHD, where in fact it's more like a heart monitor. ADHD symptoms can have peaks and troughs, and I can usually tell if it's going to be a more challenging day because I can literally hear the electric.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and actually, I've picked up on that now with you, thanks to you sharing that with me.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. If I can hear the electric, it means that day is a hypersensitive day. And that might not last all day. That's not me kind of embedding it in and saying I'm stuck there. It's just an observation that I've made over time.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. So there's some of those things that I've noticed. I'm learning all the time, obviously, where you know, we're talking about it more openly now, which is a really good thing, because that's the other thing as well. It's about that communication. We'll get onto that in a little bit, I think. But it's that talking about things, and if stuff comes up or I don't understand things, I can't quite understand it from your perspective. I'll ask you to explain it to me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And I think that's so important. That's Bailey jumping off the sofa if you've got that. A little bit of a creak of the sofa. But I think that's one of the places where I think that's really good for us because it's allowed us to open up and talk about it, and me to have the confidence to actually ask the questions if I don't quite get it, I don't quite understand it, so I'll I'll ask you to just explain a little in a little bit more detail for me. And that really helps, and I'm hoping it helps you too a bit.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And it's interesting when we talk about the the glitch where it feels like my brain's just gone onto pause, because in those moments, there's almost a piece in that. I can't just deliberately go into it, but it's usually if my brain has been throwing thousand and one things in all at the same time, and they can't there's a there's a bottleneck, they can't all get through. I saw I saw it described on what online once as one of those those by rows that have got the different colours you can click down, yeah, and somebody's trying to put all the nibs through at the same time, and it just jams the pen up, and it's like that. And when I go into that glitch, it's almost like I'm locked inside, but it's one of the very, very few times that my brain feels a little bit peaceful, and there's almost an element of it's like I don't know, having really yanky muscles and then sinking and get your sh getting your shoulders under a nice warm jacuzzi or something.
SPEAKER_04Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_03It's like everything just goes and I know I'm in it, I can tell something's being said to me, but I can't quite tune into what it is, and just for those few moments, there's just this bliss of quiet, and then I I have to almost shake myself out of it. But there is a point right at the beginning when that's happening where it's it's like I'm locked in my head, but when I recognise that it's quiet, I really don't want somebody smuggling me in a file in a cake. It's just like I'll just be locked in for a minute, thanks.
SPEAKER_04So I was gonna ask you actually about how you know if you're heading towards one of those moments, because if we come back to Tracy's questions and we'll get on to some of the tips and the things that we've learned that might help to share with others that may be going through that. But how do you so that's one of the areas where is that where the the awareness starts to build that you may be going towards that when you're in that space, or does it are you sensing it with some other things?
SPEAKER_03No, if if I'm glitching, that doesn't necessarily mean I'm going to go into a meltdown, but it can be an early sign. If I'm glitching, it's usually because I'm thinking about a thousand things all at the same time. But I can glitch just as well if I'm in creative mode and I've got lots of ideas flowing in. I can glitch while I'm in quite a positive state, because again, it's just there's a bottleneck. But if it's in an overwhelmed state, then and it's heading to meltdown, that can happen, but I guess my energy might be a bit different with it. In that you've actually glitched on a couple of these podcasts, it's caughty, hasn't it? Yeah. I've asked you a question and there's just been this pause and we've laughed and go, Whoops, glitch.
SPEAKER_04I don't know if we've actually ever shared that, but there is a you can visibly see it actually.
SPEAKER_03There's one where you're on video where we caught a glitch of it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, when we're in the studio, while we're recording that, so maybe at some point we'll share that with viewers and they can have a look and see if it rings a bell for anybody else. But yeah, I mean, I know you know, appreciate that it's probably
When Sensory Input Becomes Pain
SPEAKER_04unique to everybody. We're all you know in different ways, but I was just really interested in seeing what that was like from your perspective.
SPEAKER_03And again, the glitch is not the meltdown, the glitch is very often a sign that there are two many things going on in my head at the same time, and it's literally that that's where you'll see somebody looking like they're staring into space or daydreaming. Yeah, when it's going into meltdown, it's like you know, when you have an emotion or a feeling, and you can sense that oh I have some sadness coming through, or oh, I'm feeling a bit angry, or I feel really happy, and you can focus on that single emotion, and you can almost if somebody said to you, Why do you feel that in your body? You could go, Oh, well, I'm feeling that in my head or in my heart or in my gut. When I'm going into that massive dose of overwhelm before a big meltdown, it's not like the emotion is kind of happening in a place within me, it's like they fill my entire body. So anger can be enormous, and frustration could be unbearable. Sadness can feel absolutely bottomless. And although not might that's quite a different feeling to the glitch, it can still feel that kind of horrible sensation of being trapped inside my own head while at the same time desperately wanting to get out of my own skin.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And sometimes we'll, when it starts to go into meltdown, it can display outwardly, it could be crying, shouting, swearing, pacing, snapping, wanting everybody to just fuck off and leave me alone. And that's exactly it. It's just hands over the ears and leave me alone. I just too much, too much, just switch it off for a bit. But sometimes it can go the other way, and I can shut down kind of internally, and that's where I'll I'll struggle to get words out. I'll struggle to move, and rather than just being being a glitch, it's like my whole body then goes into shut down, can't answer questions. And you could be asking me something really simple, like I don't know, croutons or bacon bits, like the old quiz questions used to go. It's like, don't don't make me choose. I can't choose anything, I can't answer questions, I can't make the simplest choice, and it's like I just want to disappear underneath a duvet and have the entire world kind of stop needing me to be involved in it, and I can know that I'm overwhelmed, I can know I'm not thinking rationally, I can absolutely know what normally would help me or what I need to do to shift it, but that doesn't necessarily mean I can access any of it. It's like there's I don't know how to describe it, it's like I can sense that thing that I need is just over there, but there's this big thick murky cloud in front of it, and I can't quite see what it is, and I can't quite reach it. It's like it's like the old story of Tantalus, where he's you know constantly hungry, but everything in everything he wants to eat is just out of grasp all the time. It's that that's one of the most frustrating parts. And of course, then that depression can kick in, and at this point we should probably say just a bit of a warning for people that as we go into this discussion, it may well go into the territory of talking about things like suicidal ideation. We will also be talking about how we pull out of that, but just to let you know, if that kind of thing, if you if you're sensitive to that kind of topic, then just be aware you might want to go listen to a different episode that's more upbeat now, or if you feel able to, then stick with this one because we are going to be covering the uplifting, how we get out of that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03But I know that when I go into that big meltdown and the depression and the and and those old messages about me being useless and pathetic and infantile and not capable, and you know, this feeling that I'm just a great big fraud and I'm no good at anything, that can then trigger the old the old feelings of well, I don't want to be here anymore. And of course, logical my logical me knows that that's actually to do with neural pathways, i.e., we know that in my past I've spoken quite openly about you know wanting to to to unalive myself and wanting to just get off the earth. And when we talk about crashing the car and breaking my back and the incident with the Karita Belt Noose, all of those things. Because I've been to that depth, my brain has built a neural pathway. And the analogy I always use is it's just the same as when you're trying to learn to drive a car, and at first it takes ages, and you're trying to think, is it mirror? What's what's next? Is it signal, manoeuvre? What what what what order is it coming in? But when you've been doing it for a while, doing it for a while, it just automatically happens, and it's exactly the same when we've been through difficult times. It might take months or years to get to that point where we go, I've had enough, there is nothing left for me here, or in the worst cases, everybody would be better off without me. But once we've built that neural pathway, our brain is very, very clever at going, oh, we're trying to get to here, are we? So let's just bypass that and take you from the first sign of discomfort into right, what's the quickest and easiest and pain most painless way to go? And it can tip into that too. Again, the lucky or awareness part I'd love everybody to build is just the knowledge that it's a neural pathway, and that's not going to stop the thoughts coming in, but it does give perspective that allows me to go, this is gonna pass, it always does. This is just the way my brain works. Right now, I'm feeling hideous, but that will pass, and I know I'm only feeling that way, and these thoughts are only coming in because my brain has learned to shortcut the time that it took to go from being okay to thinking there was nothing left to me all for me all those years ago. So they can all come in, but I guess it's a bit like the multicolor pen thing. If you if you imagine everybody's familiar with you know using a smartphone or a laptop or a desktop computer, if you imagine that your brain has got a hundred browser tabs open, several of them are playing music, you can't work out which ones, three of them are frozen, something keeps throwing a pair of messages, and at the same time, somebody's standing beh beside you going, but can you just quickly do this? That's what it's like before it falls over. That's when the system crashes. But I guess to go back to Tracy's point, with a prolonged stressful situation, even if you reboot, all those hundred tabs automatically reopen and the music starts playing again.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, important. And that's that's the thing, isn't it? We've got to stop in those moments. I think we've got to stop trying to fix that whole situation and just focus on you know, you can't solve months of stress and while you're actually in the meltdown, yeah. You've got to look at it in just little bits at a time, the next 15 minutes, the next half an hour, the next hour, the next couple of hours, the next afternoon, whatever. Yeah. And then the next bit, instead of staring down that whole tunnel of meltdown, actually look at it one bit at a time, and it sounds so simple, but it's so effective.
SPEAKER_03You can't think your way out of a situation that has your brain shut down.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah. Your brain's gone into hibernation.
SPEAKER_04One of the things that I know that I've learned from reading up on things and learning from experts in this area is that one of the things that we can do, a really simple thing. So getting back to Tracy's question about what can you do, and what has helped, I know has helped you, we've talked about it, it's helped us as a couple, yeah, is looking at looking at tackling the body first and then the brain later on.
SPEAKER_03So for instance, body first, brain later.
SPEAKER_04So regular checks, just simple questions to yourself, you know, things like have I eaten? Have I drunk enough? Have enough water? You know, how am I feeling how's my body feeling? Am I feeling too hot, too cold? You know, do I need a wee? Have I been to the loo, forgotten to go to the loo? That's another thing, isn't it? You can hold that we for hours because you're a hyperphobist.
SPEAKER_03But then the second you your brain goes, we need to urinate. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Oh my god, I can't hold it. So I think when maybe this is a helpful one, isn't it? Or you know, am I knackered? Am I have I had enough sleep? Is that why I'm really feeling stuff so much more today?
SPEAKER_03And and that's could be part of being in that recognising as well that things like being tired, not sleeping properly, fluctuations in the weather, it's been really hot here in the UK lately. Yeah, being hungry, being overtired, being dehydrated, any one of those things can impact ADHD and the way our body's functioning. Yeah. And knock us off track
Ash’s Signs And Heat Overwhelm
SPEAKER_03a little bit. So just before we push on with all these different ways to tackle it, Ash, I'm I'm really conscious that I've talked about what it's like for me. But we know that you are also, albeit undiagnosed, ADHD, possibly with a little bit of Aud in there.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_03What's it like for you when you have that shutdown and meltdown? What is it the same? Is it different? What is it?
SPEAKER_04Everything's usually usually it's everything's too loud. I usually get a head, well, if I get a headache, yeah, and I get a headache in a particular part of my head, which is a clue that I am going into that space, and it's almost like a hot spot on my head. I can pinpoint it with a like a millimeter, it seems. So I get the headache is usually quite away along the it's that's that's not even the beginning part, but it's kind of halfway through.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And often it's the noise sensitivity for me. So it's quite sensitivity. It's either everything's too loud, I don't know, one of the dog dogs moves, you know, and wants to go out for a wee, and suddenly I'm very aware of that. I'm on hyper alert. That's one of the things for me. Yeah. And then it's about everything's too loud and too much. And I also get, and I don't know if this will make sense to anybody listening in, but if I'm, for instance, working on my laptop or on my phone for any length of time for work, which ultimately is pretty much every day, I need to take a break because everything, it's almost like the only thing I can describe it as is like emotion sickness. I start to feel really sick, I get the headache.
SPEAKER_03You mean when you're moving your phone? Because you've said before that where if you try and scroll through social media too quickly or something, when you're in that state, it makes you seasick or even on your laptop.
SPEAKER_04Yes. I could literally be. So for instance, I do a lot of proofreading for people and I love it. I love that part of my work. But that's why I take regular breaks now. Because if I push that for too long, I will get it's almost like somebody turned turn turned the heat volume up, volume up, levels up. Yeah. It's like somebody some suddenly put me into a sauna. I get the hot flushes, I get the hot. I used to think that was menopause. And yes, an aspect of that was, but knowing what I know now, I'm pretty sure that's about being in that space where I'm feeling just everything is a bit too much. And so one of the things I do is is now is stop and take a break. And it might literally be all I need is a 10-minute break, five-minute break, go out, go to the garden, go around the garden, do something different. Just go and put the kettle on, do something really simple to get me out of that space, give myself some breathing space, and then come back to it. And that's what I've realized is but it's the heat thing for me is a big telltale sign.
SPEAKER_03And actually, that's been really useful for me because you pointed that out in me that I was getting these intense heats out of my and I felt different to manopause flashes.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Or yeah, flashes, flashes, yeah. Depending on which side of the pond you're on. If you're listening from the US, I believe it's flashes. Over here, we tend to say flushes. Yeah. Actually, there's a question: why is that? Divided by a common language. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03But there you go, off topic. But I remember you saying to me, I think that's overwhelm. And I've started to recognise that now. It's a very different kind of heat. It's not one with the sweats, it's a it's a building internal, dry heat.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03That just burns from the inside out.
SPEAKER_04Out of interest, and we haven't this will just show we never realised any of this, but what I'm thinking about is for me, I've just realised it's a realisation. When I had menopause, pre-menopause, and had the hot flushes, it was it started in a different place. It tended for me to go from chest up to head. When it's that, it tends to be head first, and my face will go first, then it will work its way down to my chest area, which is really interesting.
SPEAKER_03Starts in kind of power centre for me, so kind of sternum, not sternum, um fascinating. What part of the body called? I'm having a brain fart, just below your rib cage.
SPEAKER_04There, yeah.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_04We're both going carry on, Taz, glitching. Both glitching at the same time, double glitch.
SPEAKER_03So how do we get I think one of the words you used, Tracy, was how do we reverse it? And I
Stop Fixing Everything At Once
SPEAKER_03think we need to get rid of that. Yeah, it's not about trying to reverse anything, it's about trying to deal with it, and we need to be as kind to ourselves as we can, and that can be really frustrating, particularly if you're a solver, as I know I am, and and I know Tracy, Tracy is too. Yeah. But you've got to stop trying to solve the entire situation during a meltdown. Your immediate job is getting through the next 10 minutes, yeah. Not fixing the next, I don't know, three months. Yeah. You've got to kind of Which is what we talked about just now, isn't it? It's about reducing the what do you call it, time horizon? Just reducing that right down. What needs to happen in the next 10 minutes and what can write what can wait. And it's also about reducing the input before you start adding coping strategies.
SPEAKER_04We're talking about phones with me. So for instance, take a break from the phone, any noise levels if you've got it can be, yeah. Because that's the other thing I've noticed, as I've got older, is that I used to love working with the radio on, for instance, when I was younger, and I think that came from maybe that came from environment because I was used to a very loud environment working in a newsroom. Anybody that's a journalist, you'll get that, I'm sure. And I used to really enjoy that. Now, unless I'm I'm having a an unusual day now, it would be normally it would be I need to cut down the noise now, the input, the outside stuff. I need to stop that happening. I need to lessen that input day to day because it's it's it's a distraction for me. So I tend to be I need to be quiet. Right on cue, the dogs have just seen somebody just go past their home and they're probably gonna cock a poo is now standing up at the window like a mere cat bathing. But yeah, so I've noticed the difference in me. It used to be that I used to love having lots of background noise. Now, depending on what the work is, I like to have less of that. So yeah, so let and less demands as well, other demands, other stuff coming in.
SPEAKER_03I will I can use noise to block out noises I'm struggling with if it's something like one of those. If you go on to iTunes or Spotify or whatever, or Amazon music, whatever your jam is, yeah, there are quite a few playlists on there that are audio streams specifically to help ADHD focus, concentration, sleep, excuse me. So I can put those on if I need to drown other noise out.
SPEAKER_04Oh, like I mean in the same way that I suppose I use gre pink noise or grey noise or black noise or white noise and all of that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So yeah, it's definitely about And do they vary for you?
SPEAKER_04Because they do with me as well, depending on what yeah, space I'm in.
SPEAKER_03And sometimes I just have the sound of a fan. Or the sound of a L E X A. Right, on you. Phone. I say put phone away, but sometimes if I'm in that stage of just feeling completely overwhelmed, what I crave is complete escapism. So what I might do is still have a screen, but I'll go to escapism into a really easy, repetitive, brain dead game. See, that's or a bit of fanfic.
SPEAKER_04So that's yeah, but that's on the screen. I don't want screens in that moment, I want anything but screen.
SPEAKER_03Because you will sometimes, I'm probably misperceiving it, but if I'm already in a negative state. Well, if I'm already in a negative state and I've gone into that, I need some escapism, I'm gonna go and read something just totally slushy and fantastical.
SPEAKER_04But that's probably where I'd pick up a book, good old-fashioned book is in a kind of age thing.
SPEAKER_03I if I'm in that zone, a lot of the time I can't focus on a book. Where if I go and find a short, sharp piece of again, something like fanfic, yeah, it doesn't take a lot of concentration. It's just absolute escapism. Yeah. Whereas I think that's why, that's where sometimes I perceive you're getting cross with me. Because you'll say, Well, how can you be really overwhelmed if you're still looking at your screen?
SPEAKER_04Because that's my I'm putting on my my perception, my so I'm, you know, rejecting, aren't I? I'm putting mine onto you. Very different. Whereas for me, my idea of getting out of that stress state in that meltdown state, would be to literally just stand up, even if it's change, body, change state. Yeah, move, move. I can't. That's what we've always talked about, and I think we've talked about that on previous episodes where we've said that. But where you can you can sit and be on your phone and take yourself and get that same experience because when I'm in that state, I don't, it's almost like I don't have the energy to start my body moving, but if I'm reading something, it's total escapism.
SPEAKER_03I'm at least getting my brain moving out of that space.
SPEAKER_04So that comes back to the actual sense of the feeling with it that goes with me. It's almost like I've got so much going on in here, it feels like it's going to explode, so I need to release it.
SPEAKER_03Whereas I've got so much going on there, it's going to explode, so I need to think about something completely different that's going to actually give me some dopamine. Yeah, but see, that gives me dopamine, doesn't it, doing that? Exactly. So it's different for everyone. Yeah, but if you went into that, and I know I've been in this space before, well, what how can you be looking at your screen then? And I perceive that's a critism. It probably isn't. It might be sometimes. But I perceive that as a criticism.
SPEAKER_04Because I'm not being very fair, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03But then that takes me into another level of shutdown, and that's when I feel absolutely trapped and I need nothingness. And that's where sometimes I'll take myself upstairs and I'll almost be in fetal position in duvet over my head, sleep mask on. There might be some tears, there might be some feeling very, very sorry for myself and just hugging myself really, really hard. Because then I've gone, well, I don't know, I can't do my escapism. Oh god, I've already got to sit in it. And I can't think of anything else other than to just shut down. Dark, dark on my own. In the dark, on my own, just give me a padded cell. And we've said before, you know, if we had a big enough house and endless an endless supply of Dosh, I'd almost have some kind of you know, meditation pod built in the house.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Not necessarily to meditate in, but just to go and switch off in. And when I when either one or both of us go into that, it's like stop. In the same way that with some indigenous cultures, you know, if somebody has their blanket that would or a poncho that would be running around their shoulders and they put it over their head, the rest of the tribe know that's leave them alone, they're processing something.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. That I need to it makes you invisible. And that helps, doesn't it, with this whole thing, because then that takes away the demands from outside, you know, from others, and that gives you that space to come to in your own way.
SPEAKER_03But that's also why things like, well, here are seven techniques to help you regulate yourself. Yeah. No, that because they although they may be massively helpful, in that state, that's another seven tabs.
Body First Brain Later Checks
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And even one tab, half a tab, the thought, the mere whiff of a tab, is well, that's too much, isn't it?
SPEAKER_04Because if you're overwhelmed, the last thing you want is another 20 more decisions to make on what to choose. Yeah. You want it's keep it simple. It's that thing, isn't it? Again, that old adage about keep it, keep it simple, stupid.
SPEAKER_03And we know, you know, I'm a massive advocate of things like breath work. I'm a breathwork practitioner. I use breath work to help people through trauma. And I can go very I can go to a very, very simple, I'll do a long, slow out breath, because I know that helps to balance the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems. But anything more than that, anything like do this big elaborate breathing exercise or meditation, you've got to remember that in neurological terms, what's happening is your prefrontal cortex is jammed. So you've got to stop asking that prefrontal cortex to perform, I guess. Yeah. Well, well, you're the meanwhile, you're your the alarm si the alarm system of your your entire system is screaming. Just stop. And that's where you're sorry, just throw somebody else's brain.
SPEAKER_04I'm just gonna I'm just gonna say this is where well I was gonna say it slightly differently, but I was gonna say was it that's that finding that safe person to ask for that help to support, to support, to work with you. So we talk about, don't we, body doubling, for instance. Yeah, um talk about that because you've you've used that, haven't you, and found it yeah useful.
SPEAKER_03Body doubling to help get something done, i.e., there's your executive function is misfiring, which happens a lot with ADHD, and there's a task you're struggling to get through, and you can sit with somebody else doing something at the same time and it helps you to function.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03But the body doubling when you're in that meltdown, might not be it might not be body doubling as such, it it could be sometimes you you want somebody to just sit in the space with you but say nothing. Sometimes you might want to be held quite tightly, which is where things like weighted blankets can help, and things like um compression t-shirts and vests can help as well. They can really work for some people with autism or ADHD, but other people don't like them at all. Temple Brennan with the cow with the cattle crush.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so there's different types of, aren't there? So there's degrees of pressure that they can put on. Yeah. So I know you've you've experimented with a few, haven't you?
SPEAKER_03I think. Yeah, and sometimes if I know I'm in a state of ongoing overwhelm, a bit like the thing Tracy was talking about earlier, I will sometimes then start putting a compression t-shirt on under my top, not while it's boiling hot.
SPEAKER_04So how does that match you? I was just gonna say, so when you put it on, is it almost like an instant response?
SPEAKER_03It's safety. It's safety. Okay. It won't take everything away, but it's like when you're feeling really unsure and somebody holds your hand. Oh, that's nice. I guess.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03It's a bit like that, and the same with weighted blankets, and of course you can get those weighted toys now, those hug buddies. Oh, yeah, I've seen those. A couple of our clients have got some.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03But the I think that well, where I was going when I was talking about borrowing somebody else's brain for a while, is those times where we've been in a in a better space in terms of understanding all this, and I've been able to say to you, Ash, I cannot make a decision. I can't even decide whether I want a jacket or mash with dinner. Please don't ask me to ask me to choose. If you're going, like, do you want tea or coffee? Whatever you want. Yeah, but do you want tea or coffee? Yeah. You choose. No, you choose. Do you want tea or coffee? Because you know, you're upset right now, and I want you to have something that you want. I can't choose. My brain does not have that capacity.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and I've ri I've finally sometimes it takes a few times for it to go in for me. You know, maybe there's a bit of an inattentiveness from my part, so apologies for that one. No, no, no. But but what I'm realising is now is that actually when you say that, that means just make a decision, which is one of my things that I can struggle with. Yeah, because just do it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, decision fatigue, as it's called, when you get to that stage, can be absolutely brutal, particularly after prolonged periods of stress. Yeah. Well, that comes back to what Tracy was saying, wasn't it? So please don't ask me to make any decisions, even if it's if it's as simple as which pair of socks would you like me to fetch for you? Just some fucking socks. Yeah. I don't care. Yeah. Just in fact, come and put them on my feet for me. It's it's and again, it can be somebody just sitting with you. You might not want to be touched, you might not want to be held, you might just want somebody in that space with you to know that it's it's almost like finding a way to allow my system to just stop, but know that there's somebody there to just keep a shield up.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03It's a shield, mate.
SPEAKER_04That's nice. I like that. That's a lovely way of explaining it. It's that. And I think there's been many evenings when that's happened, isn't it? We can both be in our own thing of doing our own stuff, whatever we're doing, reading or whatever. But just knowing that somebody else is there for you is such a when you're in that in that space, it's very comforting. Yes.
SPEAKER_03Even if you're not doing anything, you're not communicating, you might just be sitting side by side and both doing your own thing. Or, you know, assuming the the the fetal position and having a snooze, but knowing that there's somebody sitting next to you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And I know a lot of the if you start looking up online how to help, they'll say things like, bring it down into a 50-50 decision. Would you like toast or soup? I couldn't decide if you asked me to want if I wanted toast or soup. Yeah. But if you said I'm gonna bring you a bowl of soup and a slice of toast to dip in it, fine. But don't ask me what flavour soup I want. Yeah, so just go, just go and do it.
SPEAKER_04Give me the soup and the toast. Don't ask me, do you want this or that? Because don't put more on my plate, no pun intended. Exactly that. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So again, so what about we talked about just taking it minute by minute rather than looking about hours ahead, days ahead, weeks ahead, all of that stuff. So it's that kind of I know you referred to it before, I think, as that safe dopamine around that in these moments of kind of don't make your own self-care a another job to do. Just allow yourself to be in that space without trying to analyse overanalyse it, I guess.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and finding anything that gives you just a tiny little piece of of relief for your nervous system, but without requiring you to actually get anything done.
SPEAKER_04So, so is that where the safe dopamine thing comes from?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so for me, a favourite game that I can just I deliberately keep some games on my phone that are really kind of I jokingly call them brain dead games. So things like the ones where you have to find matching pieces or get the cubes to stuck up in the right colour or whatever.
SPEAKER_04The the really easy was that like I saw a pizza one once, I think it was. Was that the pizza one? Is that the sort of thing you're thinking about? Yeah, and there was one with slices of cake as well, where you have to get the right size, and I just want cake now. Yeah, and it's a Friday, so you know I deserve it. But let's not get distracted.
SPEAKER_03Again, it could, by the same token, it could be that fanfic. For somebody else, it might be cuddling the dog or having a shower. Although for me, when I'm in that meltdown stage, the thought of getting up and having a shower, yeah. I can sometimes get myself up to go and get in the cold pod. Please, please, please get rid of the hose pipe band soon. I need to refresh my cold pod. You know, that I know is going to give me instant relief. And sometimes I can be absolutely out of it, but the next thing we know, I'll be in a swimsuit and dunking myself in a cold pod.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And it takes all my effort to get from here to there, but I know that gives me some kind of relief. For somebody else, it could be again lying under a duvet or a weighted blanket or sitting outside.
SPEAKER_04So it's it's not about the last thing you want is it's not about being productive, is it?
SPEAKER_03No, you don't and you if you're not careful, it's you you touched on this a second ago. It's it's about not making that target to find some dopamine, something that you have to then go and successfully manufacture.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Because that's something else you've got to do, and there's another, another tab. It's think it's less about something that feels unbearable and something that and and more about something that's really simple that makes you feel good.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Look at videos of kittens, whatever it happens to be. So for me, it might be, which sounds bizarre because I spend my life with writing and reading and proofreading, all of that, but for me, writing is one of my things. Yeah. I write it out. If I can't verbalise it, you know, to myself or other people, then somebody just writing out, writing everything down, you know, what what needs my attention today? And I know you hate the L-word, but it doesn't even have to be a list. Yeah, it can just be a few notes, a few words written down just to allow me to get it out of my head. So it's one less thing, it's slightly less crowded in there. Oh, you suddenly realised, oh my, it's gonna it's gonna ping out of all yeah, but that so would that be something that you do as well, or would you do something?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and it's it's interesting, isn't it? Because I've sometimes used writing it out or typing it out or just scribbling it out or doodling any, but can I ask you a quick question?
Reduce Inputs And Find Safe Dopamine
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so with the writing, yeah, whether it's handwriting, yeah, you're handwriting it or you're typing on a keyboard, is there a difference?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, massive.
SPEAKER_04Handwriting access is a different part of the brain. Yeah, I was just gonna say, because that's why we know the you know the importance of journeying for a lot of people it can be really, really good for that reason, right? One of the many reasons.
SPEAKER_03But what's important for me if I'm in that stage is it's not the same thing that will find comfort comforting every time.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So if yesterday my comfort was cuddling one of the dogs, today it might be putting on a sleep mask and having a snooze. Tomorrow it might be just angrily bashing the keyboard and getting it out of my system, but making sure I don't post that anywhere.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Tomorrow it might be just writing something by hand. Day after that it could be the cold pod. And I don't know why this happens, but it's not always the same solution. It's it's whatever you need in that whatever you need in this second, and that's part of the mindset behind it as well. I think which when we're in in meltdown, we've got to find some way to separate whatever it is that feels awful from whatever is happening this second. So we might be dealing with something in our lives that that genuinely does like feel like a really prolonged, horrible nightmare, but without every piece of that needing attention simultaneously. Okay. So try to step back from yes, this thing is happening, I can't stop this thing, but right now let's just separate that and be in this moment. So again, sometimes that might be writing down all the problems and circling the ones that n really need your attention today. But if I'm in that state, I very often won't feel able to function enough to write down everything and then choose which one I need to circle for today.
SPEAKER_04So can it work the opposite way though? So sometimes we can get we can get so into that that area that we can forget to we almost it's almost like we need to put some boundaries around the stress around it rather than getting sucked into it so much that we can't see any way out of it, and we need those kind of down tools times away from it, don't we? Absolutely. So no talking, no talking about it.
SPEAKER_03Sometimes it can be no talking completely. Sometimes it's about that there've been times where I've said to you, I'd like to just build a great big moat around the house with piranhas and man-eating shucks and alligators, a drawbridge that's pulled up, and some dude on the roof with a big vat of tar just in case.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that sounds good.
SPEAKER_03Not the tar, but the And it's not because I want to hurt anyone, it's because I want to be visibly, very, very tangibly out of contact with people. Yeah. So lockdown was was wonderful for a lot of this stuff. Yeah. It's it's like but the the reverse of that, I suppose, is rather than thinking of a moat round round round your house or around your room or whatever, it's I sometimes just refer to it as building islands quite deliberately. You know, you know, we'll we'll so often say to people, remember you're not an island, you're not on your own. But sometimes this can work in reverse, and it will really serve us to build a deliberate metaphorical island where whatever it is that's causing this stress is absolutely banned from that island. Now, that could be something as simple as saying, right, for the next hour, I don't want to talk about that. Or be reminded of that thing at all. And that's where I think a neurotypical person might say, Well, you're just bowing your head in the sand. Yeah, because that's what my system needs in this moment.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I need to hide from it for a bit in order to regulate enough and come out of dysregulation enough to be able to deal with it. So even if there's just an hour where nobody discusses it, we don't check any messages about it, we don't research or try to fix it, because that prolonged level of research or uncertainty can kind of it keeps your brain permanently on on call. So your brain needs periods of time where it is officially off duty, even if that problem hasn't ended, in the same way that we know that people with particular particularly with ADHD can go into hyperfocus, and if we don't break that and have times away from it, it burns us out very quickly. So I guess it's the same thing. We need to, instead of getting frustrated with ourselves for not having a solve, we need to learn to really, really lower the bar.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, this isn't this right now, this is not the season for for for peak productivity, perfect housekeeping or being the life and soul of the party.
SPEAKER_04So at and that point I'm saying, do you know what for now it can actually do one? Yeah. Absolutely. We don't need to deal with that right now. Yeah. We need to focus on this and keep it really honed in just on this for now. That's enough.
SPEAKER_03If you know that you're operating at, say, I don't know, 30% on a good day, expecting 100% and then repeatedly putting yourself into that feeling of having failing just creates yet another kind of source of distress. So you gotta stop.
SPEAKER_04Is that the same if, I don't know, if we, you know, we're all like, put on a smile and greet the day and all of that, and you're really not feeling that. Have you ever had experiences where you're trying to really force that? I know you talk about, we know that by actually smiling it releases a lot of good positive stuff. We know that there's scientific evidence that shows that, but sometimes there are days where it you can be, it could be a possibility you might try and force that posity and it's just not it's not there for whatever reason. What happens then? What what can you do?
SPEAKER_03I think for me, but this might be because I've been a neuronerd for so long. Yeah, there's a difference between I hate the term toxic positivity because I think it is banded about too readily by people who begrudge anybody trying their best to be happy. Yeah, there are some people out there who are never so happy as when they just miss the bus. But I think where toxic positivity is a thing is well, you just need to choose to be happy. Yeah. And the the challenge with that is that there is some element of two of truth in that because it's to do with our mindset and where we're directing our energy and our attention. So I think for me there's a difference between just be happy, but also recognizing that there are some things I can do which are literally buttons where if I press that it will help.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03In the same way that we know that if I take myself off and just switch everything off and put my sleep mask on, that's a button that's going to help that stress.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03If I know that I'm low on dopamine, I know that if I, for instance, pick up a little dumbbell and just start still sitting on the sofa, but start doing some bicep curls, for instance, yeah, I know that that is a shortcut. That's a button that will bring some adrenaline and endorphins back into my body. I know that forcing a smile, even if we don't feel like smiling, the chemic the the the the act the physical act of that releases feel-good chemicals into my body. Yeah. So again, that's another button.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So the balance for me is recognizing where I'm going into stubborn victim mode and refusing to do that because I don't feel like smiling, and where I'm going, I want to feel better, I need to feel better, I'm gonna try pushing this button. So instead
Support, Decisions, And Borrowing A Brain
SPEAKER_03of being cynical about it, recognising what are the things we can physically or mentally do that will elicit the desired response for our mindset, our energy, and our body. And sometimes that can be switching off, sometimes that can be moving to get adrenaline and endorphins flowing. Sometimes it can be, for instance, forcing a smile or putting your favourite song on and making yourself dance around like a loony. Because even if you start dancing miserably, at some point you will realise that you're not feeling miserable. Yeah, the challenge is forcing yourself to do that or encouraging yourself to do that when you're in that state, because when you're in that state, you have generally gone into a shadow state, into a victim state, into a cynical state, into a state of dis-ease, and very often from that place you won't want to do those things, and that's where it becomes really important again, and there's lots of contradictions in this. I know it's really important in that again to not then berate yourself for being in a victim mindset, yeah. Your body is just absolutely depleted, so maybe you need to just stop. But it's it's a really fine line. I need to stop, I need to push this button, putting on my body to give my body what it needs.
SPEAKER_04So obviously, we've touched on it a little bit at the top of the programme, but when if someone gets to that stage where they really feel they can't cope, yeah, and things do get a little bit darker for want of a better phrase, how do we approach that? Because you know, what happens if we're worried about somebody, what do we do? What are the things we can do?
SPEAKER_03I think that's where we kind of we need to try and gently distinguish for ourselves between I can't cope with this, yeah, and I don't want to be alive or I'm frightened or might hurt myself.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_03You know, this because the the second one of those moves beyond kind of ADHD coping tips, and that's the point for ideally some real human support.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Unless you're in the place where I am where I where I know that I can just go, yeah, that's my body's neurological pattern, and and I can get out of this. But if it's at the point where you don't trust yourself, where you're scaring yourself, then you need to get some help. And we're gonna put some resources in the show notes for this episode. So go to go and find Awesome the Off Topic on Buzzfeed and find the show notes to it, and that we're gonna put some some pointers in there. So whether that's your GP, whether it's mental health professionals, a crisis service, trusted people being physically around them, or even if you don't have anyone physically nearby, you know, somebody on the phone, somebody on WhatsApp, somebody on a Zoom, whatever whatever it feels like for you. And if somebody you know you fear is in that second bracket, then do try to be around them if you can rather than leaving them alone to regulate their their way out of it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So I think how do I sum it up? I guess if you can't if you can't see the light at the end of the tunnel, then stop making your stare dead, making yourself stare down the entire fing tunnel.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, which again comes back to what we talked about earlier.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, well, just a few few feet of ground immediately in front of you.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, exactly. Okay. So if we come back to Tracy's question again, and so we've got that situation maybe where that stressful situation isn't, it's not ending anytime soon. So what can we actually control in those moments?
SPEAKER_03We can control when we take a step away from things, even if it's a series of situations that are going to keep progressing at their own pace. So let's say, I don't know, you've got a wedding or a funeral to plan, or you're moving house, or you're changing jobs, or you're relocating, or you're dealing with a a poorly pet or a sick kid, whatever it happens to be, or you know, a dependent who's relying on you, you also need to be able to choose to take yourself off the pitch, even if it's that for even if that's for a few minutes, even if the rule is if mummy or daddy is in the toilet, you don't come and barge in. Yeah, you know, it's recognising that you do have choices and you do have options, as much as you're telling yourself you don't. It can be doing some of the the exercises that aren't always good for ADHD if you think of thinking about things like CBT, it doesn't always work for ADHD, but there certainly are techniques that come from CBT and mindfulness that can help us to at least change that state and get into a different part of the brain.
SPEAKER_04But isn't that again where we need to be willing to try those things to see what works for us? So you might be a mix, yeah.
SPEAKER_03So you might sometimes say if if I'm in a state and I'm struggling to get out of it, you might say something to me like, Fund me five things that are green in the room. Yeah. You know that, and then there's the five things you can see, four things you can hear, three things you can touch, yeah, two things you can smell, or whatever it, whatever it is. And that can be right. Those little state breakers can work. Yeah. And it's again, it's a state breaker, it's a change state in the same way that if I'm working with someone with with hypnosis or NLP or something like parts integration, I might at the end of the access say so say something like, How many windows are in your house? Because it's something that forces your brain into a different place. You have to stop and think about what color socks did you put on today without looking? What kind of pants are you wearing without looking? Yeah. You know what's the difference between baked beans and spaghetti? Just something that makes you takes your thinking gear into a different direction. But again, the it's not even about trying to make somebody feel more hopeful if they're in that space. It's just about because when we're there, we don't feel that we've we've we've got anything to believe in or that anything's going to be fine. You just have to find a way to make this next bit survivable. It literally is one foot in front of the other. Yeah. And I wish they'd teach us more about this in in schools and growing up because this is the trouble when we get to that stage of overwhelm, because we're not taught about the way neural pathways work or the way the the way we need to handle ourselves to give ourselves that space if we're struggling. The only thing our brains can work out is on or off. So we go straight to permanent vacation because we don't know any other options, which is why I'm you know, what if there was an alternative? And that's that's what I'm so passionate about and want I want to keep talking about a lot. You know, it's and another thing, and this is a bit of a delicate one. But I know for me, if I was in that state and you said to me, for instance, Are you thinking about killing yourself? Yeah, that wouldn't make me suddenly want to go and kill myself. And that's not going to be the same for everyone.
Dark Thoughts And Getting Help
SPEAKER_03So I'm not suggesting this is necessarily what you do, but if you're worried that somebody is in that state, you don't necessarily need to shy away from asking them about it. Because number one, if they're sharing it, then problem shared is problem halved.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, but there's a reason for them sharing it, right?
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Number two, there's a difference between somebody thinking about checking out, so suicidal ideation, yeah, and somebody actually having a plan to go and do it. And sometimes we need to recognise the difference. Am I actually making a solid plan to go and escape this world? Or am I just so craving a pause switch that actually I just want to get off the world for a while and then come back when I'm feeling better? Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And to know there's a difference, yeah, and to know that difference, to recognise that difference, and also to know that there are choices to help you through that. Yeah. There are there are people and things that you can do and people that are there for you that can help in those moments.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And and that is that would open up a very different conversation, wouldn't it? Potentially. And I'm sure anybody that works with people that are in that space will know just we all talk about, don't we, the importance of talking about things, but sometimes when those words can't come and we can't let them come through, yeah. Knowing, just knowing, having a sense of something else there that can help and support and be there for you, yeah, could make all the difference. So we'll certainly add in some support notes in here. And remember for anybody listening, if you any of this for any reason has triggered anything for you that is really difficult, please know that organisations like the Samaritans are available in the UK and Ireland. The number is 116-123, 116-123. Please, please, please speak, talk to somebody. There are there people there that are there to help and support you.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, absolutely. And if you're listening to this now and you really are struggling, again, recognise that difference. And as somebody who has tried to escape in the past, I can tell you there's so much I would have missed out on. I'm so glad I failed. So glad I failed. And even if the thought comes up now, I can at least go, yeah, you trained your brain, and that the second you start to feel a little bit upset, it's gonna take you straight there. Because it's trying to, in the same way that for those those of you who did it, did learn your times tables. If I said what's six times eight, you'd know it like that, you wouldn't have to sit and work it out. Your brain just takes you there. It's the same thing again, it's a neural pathway. So and if you're with somebody, remember that asking them directly isn't going to put the idea into somebody's head. And if you feel that somebody is in immediate danger, don't just leave them sitting there on their own if you can help it. And you know, if you're feeling like that and you're on your own, again, reach out, talk to somebody, call Samaritans. There's an online service called Black Dog, I've I've used a few times in the dark places as well. There's always some help around. There are local resources very often as well. And you know, it could be as simple as if you can get yourself out of the house and just go and sit in a coffee shop. So sit somewhere where there are people. If you can do that without feeling too isolated. Yeah. You know, find some community options, I think. The it's about not trying to make it too big again, though, isn't it? Because the reality is sometimes really, really messy. You know, sometimes life life is messy, and and rather we have to kind of change the question away from how do I make this stop to how do I stop this consuming every available inch of me while I wait for the circumstances to change. So it's tiny daily bullet points.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03If it's a situation you can't get out of, then stop trying to get out of the whole situation.
SPEAKER_04So tiny, those tiny movements onwards, forwards, those next five minutes. So you've been going on for months, get through the next ten minutes, then the next bit. Yeah, and then the next bit. And know that there's people there to help you at every point. Yeah. So I think we've that's been quite an episode, hasn't it? So thank you very much to Tracy for that question. It's taken us down an interesting route. As I said, we've done things differently today, but we felt it really was worth an episode in its own right. So thank you for bringing that to our attention and leading to this discussion. We hope it's helped with some of those pointers. And anybody else that's listening to this, please reach out, you know, speak to us, have a chat with us. Yeah, we'd love to hear from you on your views on some of the points that we've raised in this episode. Taz, anything else you want to add?
SPEAKER_03No, just to say that, you know, these are just pointers. We are not, you know, we're not qualified mental health professionals. We're just talking about things that we've experienced and that have helped us. So please, please, please, don't take anything we've said here in place of go going and having a conversation with with your GP or a coach or a counsellor if you need to. Don't be on your own with it. There's always help, even if we can't see it. It'll be it'll be there somewhere. And you know, if you do just want to tell the world to fuck off for a day, that's okay too. But it's a temporary state. Temporary. Come back to centre, breathe, and real, really remember that this will pass, it always does. There will always be some better days. There'll be more shit days too, because it's life, but there'll also be some good shit ahead. So hold on to that. On that note, to to go kind of a little bit knee-jerk into cheeriness, we'd we'd better leave everybody with the hotline number
Hotline Number And How To Reach Us
SPEAKER_03again. So we're gonna play the the hotline jingle with the number, and then we're gonna come back and just give you an update on where we are with those five bloody books we said we'd do in a week.
SPEAKER_00Want to be featured? Call our hotline on 033 0027-2871. Remember to add plus 44 if you're outside the UK. Leave your name, record your message, then listen out on future episodes.
SPEAKER_03Seems so crazy, doesn't it, to go from such a serious subject into hey, let's have a peppy hatline number. It was either that or the cinematic one. We've got two outros, that really peppy one and one that's big cinematic, deep booming voice, and yes, all the rings.
SPEAKER_04So, hey, let us know what you think. But yeah, so so what do we want to talk to talk about, Taz? We want to talk about these books, right? Let's be we can be totally upfront.
SPEAKER_03In our last episode, we said we'd set ourselves this ridiculous task to get five books done in a week, didn't we? Well, freaking Bailey jumping off the sofa again. To be fair, one's done and published and already out there. Yeah, that's yours. The the little book of Sweary Soul Kicks that's out there. Yeah. We've got one of yours that's almost
Book Challenge Update And Microbooks
SPEAKER_03ready to go. Yeah, we're just finishing that off tonight. Yeah, I've got another one that's almost ready to go.
SPEAKER_04And then I haven't done the fourth one. No, we've potentially got a joint one. So that would be one, two, three. That's that's four. Yeah, but we did have another one as well. So like yeah.
SPEAKER_03Well, well, actually, I've I've swapped one of mine out. We really need to. But remember, we were gonna get them done for last Friday. So we've gone over the week, but what we're hoping, because we wanted them in time for an event we're going to, didn't we? Yeah, next week. What we're hoping, everything crossed. My little book of sweary soul kicks was from from uploading it, it was live within 24 hours. That was really good. I think that's a record actually. It was. I think it went live on the did it go live on the Sunday? I think so. And then by the Tuesday, I'd got my author's copies. So if we get more done over the next couple of days, hopefully we should still get them in time.
SPEAKER_04Hopefully. Fingers crossed, eh?
SPEAKER_03Fingers crossed. I've got my fingers crossed so tightly here, it's ridiculous. So, worst case we've got one done. Best case we might get four, maybe five, but it wasn't within a week. It'll be more like within two weeks.
SPEAKER_04Other things that came in, to be fair, as anybody that runs their own business knows, things come up. Yeah. Challenges, shall we say, not issues, but challenges. But anyway, with other projects. But it's cool, it's all meant to happen.
SPEAKER_03We got hit by a Lurgy, didn't we, in the middle of it?
SPEAKER_04Oh, I forgot. So that knocked us out for a first few days. Oh, yeah, we did. So I think about that. That was a few days out actually. Yeah, so I think to be fair, we've done alright. I didn't really want without going into graphic dudes, I didn't really want to be sitting on the loo, not doing it, not a hygienic. No, nothing to do, really. No. Okay, so we'll we'll give you another update on the we will do. We'll see those. Hopefully, you'll see those out. And Taz, you did get to the best seller list, didn't you? I did, yes.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_04Wasn't it number three, I believe?
SPEAKER_03You know, it might have been number one, but the trouble is you've got to sit there refreshing the best seller list regularly when it's first done, yeah, in order to do it. And of course, we've got lives, we've got clients, we've got work to do. You can't be looking at it all the time. But yeah, it might have been to one, it might have been to two, but it definitely went to three because I screenshotted it.
SPEAKER_04Proof, proof, I've got proof right here. It's all good, it's all good. But what I'm finding actually, while we're talking about microbooks, because your latest one is a micro book, obviously, to those smaller books, those little midget gems as I refer to them. Is that one like noticed actually number one on our podcast is our microbooks episode in series one? It's gone number one. I know, suddenly. So obviously, that's really good from my point of view because I've been talking about them a bit more.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, because you've got a programme coming up here.
SPEAKER_04In October, so it works. This stuff works. I was quite pleased with that. So thank you everybody that's been tuning in to that. And obviously, if you want any more on the microbooks side of things, let us know. I'm sure we could do something else on that. But um, yeah, it's been good fun, and they are fantastic little books for marketing. They really are. So I'll say easy to do. It takes a different skill set. In fact, one of the thank you, Gladys, you agreed too. One of the things that I talked about on my LinkedIn post recently was about that very thing, about it, it really gets you to focus and use a different skill set for producing a micro book to a bigger book, you know. When you're talking about 50, 60,000 words, 40,000 words in a book, and then a micro book which is much, much smaller, and word count is much less, obviously, it's a very different thing to do. So it's great for tightening up your writing style and copy. So, yeah, do give us a shout if you'd like to learn more. So that's good. But Taz, anything else you want to talk about before we close off for this week.
SPEAKER_03Um, I would just say for anyone listening who's been interested in the whole ADHD discussion, remember there are some other episodes that you might enjoy as well. So if you go back to the first series episode seven ADHD friendly business truths, you might enjoy that one. And in terms of you know, general mindset struggles, we also did an episode about burnout that might be useful for people as well. So look those up. The Burnout Chronicles was episode 32 of the first episode.
SPEAKER_04And where was the microbooks Taz? That was series one, definitely, wasn't it?
SPEAKER_03I couldn't tell you what episode series one, she says scrolling through now.
SPEAKER_04If you look, it's number one, Taz. Episode two. Episode was it as soon as that? Wow, okay. Cool. That was in the days before we had our new recording stuff. So uh the sound quality might not be quite as good on that one, but um you'll still hopefully pick up a few gems, including midget gems of the book itself.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, there's there's loads, there's loads, there's loads. So again, just go and have a scroll through the episodes. We've also got episode 34 was ADHD is not the same as ADHD. That might be interesting. So a few episodes there you might like. But as always, if you've got a topic that you'd love to see us covering, please do let us know. Again, call the hotline, leave us a message, or go to the Buzz Sprout channel and leave us a typed message there. And of course, you can find us on our Instagram and Facebook channels under Awesomely Off Topic. Or look at me, Taz Thornton, or me, Asher Gleawater. We will come back to you as soon as we can. And until then, we will see you next Tuesday. You've been listening to Awesomely Off Topic. If you've enjoyed this, hit follow and subscribe. And if you want more, come and find Awesomely Off Topic on social media. That's where all the extra bits live. Stay awesome, stay off topic, and we'll see you next time.
